Welcome back to Come Back with a Warrant podcast.I'm Brandon Denet.And I'm Monica Schack.Before we kickstart this week's episode, this is your reminder that this podcast is not legal advice.It's real, unfiltered and for entertainment purposes only.If you need to speak with a lawyer, call one.Or better yet, call us.us.Welcome back.Today, we will be talking about what force police can use on citizens when encountering them and when citizens can effectuate a citizen's arrest.And I honestly didn't even know a citizen's arrest was a thing before I became a lawyer.Uh, I definitely have seen citizensYou've seen it in, like, movies and things like that.Yeah, I guess.It's like, "This is citizen's arrest!"Yeah.Like, no.Yeah.Well, the- But yeah, it is actually a thing.Yeah, or like the hero that, like- Right.saves the day.But I didn't know it was, like, a real thing.Yeah, yeah.Well, as long as you're grabbing the person for something that's actually a crime- Uh-huh.And we'll talk about that, but yes, it is a real thing.Yeah.I actually had posted a video of mine.I guess this is considered a citizen's arrest or itThat's, that's the question, wha- if it is.And so since we're talking about it, we can just start with that since- Go for it.But, um, I posted a video about this crazy, wacky lady walking the street and she's, like, screaming and she picks up a random rock and throws it at an elderly lady.Like, they don't even know each other.She's la- elderly lady there, lady is just walking in front of her down the street and so she picks it up and throws it at her and so there's this man down the street that sees her do it and he, like, is so delayed.Like, I thought it was delayed, so I reacted to the videoAnd I was like, I don't know if heBasically, I don't think thisLike, he could stop her and call the police and effectuate a citizen's arrest, but he attacked her and so that was more so, like, self-defense, like, argument, but he, like, came down the street and, likeShe was already turning, like, the other direction from the elderly woman and was walking back and he came, like, maybe a minute later just screaming and, like, tackled her to the ground and was like, "No!"I like that.Oh, yeah.I, IIt's like, it was a very entertaining video, but I got some hate online for being like- Well, who's to say she wasn't gonna pick up another rock?That's what the comments were saying!Yeah.Exactly right.Exactly, so.I just wanna know what type of form he had when he, when he hit her.Like, did he hit her with a good- He, like, tackled her.He, like- Was it a good tackle?He ran down the street and just, like, boom, and you just see them both, like, pancake down.Yeah.And it was somebody from, like, a- an apartment, like, just recording above.I was likeImagine just, like, looking out your window and seeing that shit.I would def- And then did they- I would definitely record.And then did she getWas it, was that a citizen arrest?I don't know.Did sh- did he, like, wait for the police to come or anything?I'm assuming so, yeah.But stop, see that would have been a citizen's arrest because he saw that down the street and held her down until the police got there.Yeah.That's what you think of anytime someones' like, "Oh, we're gonna hold them down until the police get there."Like, that's effectuating a citizen's arrest.Yeah.Pretty much.But usually it's, like, a group of people doing it or holding down somebody before they're able to get away from something bad and then, like, they're just waiting.Yeah.You know?Or people taking things into their own hands.Oh, street justice.Yeah, like vigilantes.Yeah, where it's like a group just beats the shit out of, like- Yeah.whoever just did something.Yeah.That's one way to get them to wait for the police to get there.And then get charged with a crime.Scramble!Run!Yeah.Totally.Scram!Yeah, get out of there.Anyways, so that's, I guess, citizen's arrest.But yeah, but we'll talk more about-that throughoutWe, we kind of started with citizen's arrest, but it's like- Yeah, I wasn't expecting it.Yeah.But anyways, so what, this is also something that just comes up a lot on social media is, like, the use of force for police with body worn camera, dash cam, other people's cell phone cameras where it's, like, posted online and people are seeing a part of what happened and it, it escalates and people have a lot of opinions on this and obviously I'm not pro, like, force on citizens from police , but there is a time and place where they are allowed to useit and this is something that I think many people should know as a part of interacting with them because when it comes into scenarios, and we've talked about this on other episodes where, you know, you think you know your rights and it's not necessarily the case, and you don't know what certain actions you take could escalate in terms of certain hand movements, getting back into your car, saying that you need to grab something and they didn't say you can't after they've removed you.Like, there are certain things that make them more suspicious about your next move and I think that the courts consider that when it gets presented to them that there was any sort of force used against that person, e- even if there was a case against that person.And I, I think all of the cases where police use force and it's on video get highlighted and it's immediately whether or notThe question becomes whether or not the force was excessive.And something that you mentioned, and I think this is an excellent point, the videos that go online, when that video starts and when you're seeing it start- Does something, yeah.is not necessarily when the interaction with law enforcement started.Yeah.And if it's not, you have not seen all the things that have led up to that.And I've seen videos, and I'm sure there are probably videos that you've posted, where you're seeing this, you know, person sitting in their car basically doing nothing and all of a sudden then you just see a fist come through the window and the police are pulling them out.I did post this.Okay.So, the point is, though, when youAnd I've seenAnd I know the video that we're talking about.Yeah.I've seen- The red shirt.the body worn camera of that video.Yeah, I looked up the whole video.SoOkay.So I've seen the police video.The actual video that you play started many minutes after the actual interaction started.Yeah.And this woman, I think, got back into her car and was, like, rolled back up the window and was belligerent and then basically starts her video to show the world how ridiculous police are by starting the video after the interaction and after they had told her to get out of the car a bunch of times, after they had already said, "We have stopped you for X, Y, Z reason."Yeah.After, after the police tried to deescalate the situation, then they busted in th- through the window and got her out of the car.Yeah.But I mean, anybody can post a video of anything starting at any time, and whenOne of the good things about body worn camera in a situation like a police stop is there's gonna be more context.Yes.And the context is gonna come from what is happening throughout the entire interaction, not just what the best clickbait is gonna be and what drives home someone's point that they believe all police use excessive force.Yeah, and we love to use, like the courts and the law and lawyers love toIt's, it's in case laws, like reasonableness under the circumstances or the totality of the circumstances, and it's, it sounds so like fancy and you look into basically certain factors, that they break it down into factors or they'll tell you this is an objective standard that you need to view it as and see if this is something that, that could have been perceived from the, from the officer's perspective when viewing everything in context as a potential threat to their lives, toeverybody else around them, or even to that individual themselves.So also, they have an obligation to preserve whatever it is that they're preserving, like preserving evidence, you know, whatev- whatever it is.People do crazy shit all the time.Fortunately, the majority of these situations are split secondYes.reactions.And that's split second for everybody involved.Mm-hmm.The policeI think one of the best things about body camera is there is a lot less of, uh, room for there to be a question about what actually happened.Right.And discrepancies start to go away.Yeah.Because everything is caught, and that is really to the benefit of everybody involved.That's to the benefit of the police that are involved certainly, and that's to the benefit of the lawyers that are involved later down the road, and the individual that's arrested themselves to have their rights protected if there is a violation of their rights- Yeah.and that, that gets caught on camera.Exactly.The body worn cameras become so important because when you have to sit and evaluate a split second decision that a law enforcement officer made, whether or not they actually saw somebody reach for a gun or whether they saw what the other person was doing when they chose to engage with certain levels of force, now we have the ability to look at film and say, "Okay, it was a split second moment, but we can see the split second moment.We can see this is how that officer thought."And either we can say what they did was okay and clear their con- you know, their conduct, or say, "No, no, it's not okay," and that's where the police themselves get investigated and get charged and the state attorney's office goes after them just as much as, if not more th- than the, they would the other individual.Yeah.Video is like really good to hold people accountable, I think.Uh, yeah, of course.It's like definitely something that we all rely on all the time.Like I don't resolve any of my cases, even if it's not like one of those scenarios, like I need body worn camera.I need to see what happened because that's like the way I can fact check the police report, the way I can fact check my client.Like I can actually legally analyze what actually happened.So there are so many like different things that are said because there are ports, reports generated as a result.Like there's a use of force report that officers are required to fill out whenever they use force, even if they do it justifiably within their job.They still have to fill out a report saying I used force or like, you know, I had to do X, Y and Z because it's kind of a way to cover the department's ass and their, the specific officer's ass.Just generally, there's so many reports generated and so like there needs to be a way for the courts and the attorneys who are litigating the actual case to be able to look back at the actual facts, not the perceived facts of that individual, whether it's an officer or the, the alleged victim or the client or defendant in the case to be able to like pinpoint, okay, like does thisWas this legally justifiable?Was this permitted?Did you go and grab the gun like you were going to go shoot the officer?Like those things matter.If there was an allegation and then that- that- that could rise to a level of a charge and then you could catch a charge for that.So there's like so many different like things that go into it and it's like was this appropriate conduct considering the entirety of all the circumstances and when I say appropriate, it really is considered reasonable under the eyes of the law.And reasonable is really the difference between justice and jail time.Yes.Reasonable comes down to whether or not, you know, a cop punching somebody in the face or somebody tackling, uh, a- a bank robber as they're running away, you know?Or really the old example of like the guy running away from robbing an old lady with her purse and somebody tackles him- Yes.and like, you know, the a- the concept of use of force has become popular because the worst examples of use of force are always highlighted in the media.Yeah.Right?Deadly force.Always.And not always necessarily deadly because if you go back into the '90s, uh, Rodney King was beaten nearly to death but he was not killed- Yeah.by the police, but that is immediately, you think of police brutality or excessive force, that's like one of the first examples everybody thinks about.Yeah.Obviously George Floyd you think about.Yeah.You think about the different cases that you've heard of, but then I also go back into my mind and think about my clients that were interacting with the police and uh, uh, you know, a police officer leg swept my client and put them on the ground and, you know, in their report they wrote, "I escorted them to the ground."Yeah, it's like- And, you know, there'sNot that that's the r- not that that was a wrong way for them to have handled it or for them to have written it, but it dep- obviously depends on the situation.Like I'm not saying in a, in a normal situation, no, I don't anticipate that aBut I also don't anticipate my clients to be running away from the police- Yeah.and get tased- Yeah.as they're climbing up a- a fence.But yeah.But like that is part of what happens, that's part of this force that's used and it all comes down to whether or not it was reasonable.Yeah.Well, it's- it's- it comes down to n- like also like how necessary it was.Like was it- Right.necessary to be used?So like the- the example you're saying like where the client or the- the person is the suspect, whatever, is running away and they're like on a fence and they need to like tase them, that's appropriate, like that's- Right.necessary to detain the person if they have probable cause to arrest that person.So there is an, if that person is- is a danger to society because they have a gun on them or whatever it is, that even makes it m- like gives more reasons for the police to be able to use force.But there are instances, like you're saying, where there is excessive force or there is police brutality and those are instances where it was not necessary.So that's- And ge- and generally, generally, there is something that when there isn't an unnecessary amount of violence and it's now caught, like we're talking about on body worn camera or by other people that are filming it, the onus now goes onto the government to prosecute those charges.Yeah.And they do, you see police getting prosecuted and police being, you know, successfully charged, prosecuted and sentenced on these cases.I mean, you see that happen throughout the country but then there are countless examples where this happens and nobody's prosecuted and you know- So many.Right, and like I was making the example about the leg sweep but, you know, I've seen videos online where somebody is running their mouth and that is what gets them tackled.I know and so- Where that is not the same as somebody running away.It's- Exactly.So those are the ones that get me.Yeah.Because those are like kind of the, I don't wanna say the in-betweens because it's like nobody died, but and th- there is technically like that is considered police brutality and that happens I think more often than like dis- I don't wanna say discussed 'cause it actually is talked about a lot but that's the part that gets me.It's like these people areYes, they're disrespectfulThey're saying sh- they shouldn't be saying, they're probably not complying t- like the way they should be and they're not fully cooperative.Like there's- there's- there's reasons for the officers to be agitated towards them and I get that.But to like take it out on the person is crazy to me and there, it's, it happens and I'm like this is where like I have such a problem with police because it's like you are the one that should be deescalating like and- and I know like we're educating people to deescalate but like not everybody is going to take that responsibility and it really should be on the officer to have that extra responsibility to deescalate whatever si- situation they're in and I think that because they are dealing with such shit or whatever scenario they'redealing with and they get frustrated because they're human, they end up taking it out on that person and I'm like did you just forget that the camera was on or like, I don't know, it's just like sometimes I'm like, you know, maybe yeah, maybe they didn't pull out a gun on that person and it's not, it didn't rise to that level.It's kind of like the in-betweens of like, you know?But I mean I feel like every day when you look at the news you're seeing a new story of police officers that are being charged for something and it's either, you know, there's the big case in West Palm right now where there's a bunch of officers that are charged for, I think that was a police chase where they wound up leaving after there was a bad accident.I think that's what, the one that's going on right now.But you're- you're seeing police being prosecuted and charged and formal inquiries and investigations being done into brutality and that's because all of these things are caught on camera.You know, when you have somebody that's just running their mouth to the police officers and then you have the officer flip them onto the ground and then, you know, make a- a really rough arrest and it's completely unnecessary-We're all seeing that.By the time I'm seeing that, you have to imagine that this officer's supervisors are seeing- have seen that, and there are already some investigation that's going on because everything is caught on camera nowadays.Hmm.And if it's not caught on camera and it's the ones that areThose are the ones that are slipping in between andBut I think there's been a big increase in- Yeah.That I agree.police being prosecuted for any type of misconduct, let alone, you know, brutality or, or- Yeah.being too rough.I don't know if theyLike, I don't know how it escalates or if it does.Maybe it's that's why they require the use of force reports and, honestly, I use it to my benefit sometimes if I can get my hands on it in discovery.But it'sAnd honestly, sometimes it makes thisThat's why it's like w-Despite these things that we're talking about, that's why we say like, "Let your lawyers handle it," because when we get to court, and let's say like you were just running your mouth or whatever and like things don't go asLike, it is a rough arrest and you get to court and we get this use of force report or we don't, and we get the body-worn camera and we see that it was unnecessary, we use that to your benefit in your defense.So, like, if you do act kind of the way you're supposed to and just, just, just take it in the moment in a way and not really likeObviously, don't confess, don't make statements, like all the things.But if you just likeYou know they're gonna arrest you, you'reDon't try to get out of it because it's not gonna happen.It's just gonna make it worse.So at that point if they act a way, we can use it, in our case, to your benefit, whether it's in trial'Cause it's like if it's a resisting case, which often happens.Like resisting cases escalate from really any sort of crime but sometimes they come out of nowhere when you're just like stopping for a traffic citation and then it's like, you know, you h- exchange some words with the officer, you get into it, and then they're like, "Get out of the car," and then you, failure to comply with the lawful commander.You know, it's like, it's like one, one thing can just lead to another and escalate so quickly and then it could lead to a rough arrest and when you get there, it's something that like you're no c- you're not gonna be able to get yourself out of it so just let them be assholes, do the rough arrest, and then when we get to court, we are gonna have all of that to be able to point to and be like, "How is this resisting?"You know what I mean?I have never seen a person that was being polite- Yeah.and that was not being belligerent get a rough arrest or get thrown to the ground or get- True.I've never seen that before.True.The only time you see a video where somebody is getting a, a real rough arrest is they, they were being belligerent, they were saying things that they shouldn't have been saying and the interaction, the control that they had over the interaction with the officer, they wasted it.Yeah.And they didn't do anything they could to make the situation any better than, than it was because they already gotThey're already interacting with the police so something has already happened that has brought them to the point where they're interacting with the police.there's ways that they can handle it and that don't end up in them in, in a rough arrest.Yeah.If they're going to make an arrest no matter what, then let them do that.You don't have to fight them on it- No.and pick up more charges.Yeah, exactly.Right.And the thing is like peopleLike I feel like people could hear you say that and be like, "Well, I have a right to likeI have a right to my first Amendment speech," and sure, you have the right.Yeah, you have the right.That's why it's not a crime, that's why you're not getting charged with it but are you making the situation worse?Absolutely.A plus B equals C and people just like don't have the regulation in the moment to be like, "Maybe I shouldn't do that or maybe I shouldn't say that or maybe this cop might have abe on a power trip."Who knows?It's, it could be about ego.Who cares?But at the end of the day you need to really just protect yourself so all that to say I don't know.I feel like I'm saying a lot.Well, be theI mean, you can be the bigger person when it comes to- Yeah.an interaction like that and-the roughest arrests that we've seen don't come from people that are being polite.Exactly.Yeah.It, it's just really that, that's, uh, simple.If you'reThat, that really isIt is.I mean, I've, I've never watched a video where the police were really going at, you know, where there was a resisting, where somebody wasa resisting where somebody was, you knowIt usually starts with somebody being belligerent or being rude or being excessive in the moment that you could have just said nothing or just been polite or if they were like, "Hey," like, "We have you for driving under suspension," or, "We're gonna arrest you for DUI," or, "We're gonna arrest you for something else."Like, okay, like- Yeah.like, do your job.Yeah.I'll, I'll get a lawyer after and that, that's it.Exactly.Exactly.But it's tough in this situation.People get heated.Yeah.You know?Yeah.I've never had a heated interaction with a, with a cop that was outside of the courtroom, but I can imagine how it can happen and, like, nobody wants to be sitting there in a, in a police stop.Like, I certainly don't wanna be sitting in a police stop and, like, this is what we do for a living.Yeah.Like, you know- Yeah.it's not, it's not an enjoyable thing for anybody, but there are ways to get through it.Yeah.There was an officerI'm, I'm thinking about there was one instance when I was at the public defender's office.It wasn't my case, but it was, it was a wild one.So heI don't remember what the charges were, but theIt was like a corner store surveillance video and it was prior to PBSO.PBSO didn't get body worn camera until I think 2023 or 2022 or something.Okay.So prior to that, they didn't have body worn camera and that was, that was a pr- that was a big problem with PBSO specifically in certain, um, units, I guess is what they call it.So I won't say the specific unit on camera.But anyways, the- they were at this, like, gas station corner store or whatever and they werethere was thisthere were people that hang out out there or, like, they're drinking or whatever.They're just standing out there, like, just minding their own business, and this guy was being approached by one of the officers and heYou can't hear anything on the surveillance video, but you just h- see them interacting and suddenly, this cop just literally starts punching and beating this guy.Like, just beating him.He, like, he didn't even really put up much of a fight.I think he was, like, on drugs or something.He literally, like, was laying on the ground and still, like, kind of, like, in and out of consciousness and, like, he- the cop was, like, on him, like, just beating him up and I was literally, likeI was so shocked.I was like, "I can't believe I just watched that."And, like, this was a c- um, so these surveillance videos, you can't really get your hands on them unless you, like, order them within 7 to 10 business days, like, literally after the incident occurred, and so, um, the investigators at the PD's office are, like, always on it because, like, once a case comes in, they g- have a high case load, they have to, like, go and, like, ch- check the crime scene, see if the- like, what businesses are around.They'll check and see if they got it on camera or whatever.And so, like, they thankfully were able to get this.I think they're, like, it ended up in a, like, a lawsuit against the actual department, but it wasthere, there was no prosecution in that case and I, like, actually I remember watching in the office and I was likeOther officers came a- like, w- a- and saw that and they were trying to get him off of the guy and they were like, "What?"Like, "What the fuck?What are you doing?"So, like, things do happen like that and it was, like, sad because, like, this person had, like, n- clearly no resources or less resources.They were just, like, a random on the side of the road.I don't know what crime he was charged with, you know, but he wasn't an active threat at that moment.Like, he was just, like, hanging around, like, being whatever.So I, I will say I have seen certain scenarios that are kind of, like, unwarranted, but I don'tI hope to believe that that is not majority of situations.Not to say that police do get overly aggressive sometimes, but I think that that i- it's led to a point based off of the interaction.So I remember watching that and I was like, "I will never forget this.That's so crazy."Like, I just, likeI don't know.You know certain things you watch and you're just like, you'll never- Certain videos you see will-like-especially with this job, certain videos you see stick with you for- Exactly.forever.You just, like, will never not- Yeah.So that's one of them.Seems like a video that they would play at the PD's office, though.Crazy times.Yeah.They're like, "Come, everybody gathering."And we're like- I feel like-"FTP."No, I'm just kidding.I was gonna say, like, I knew.I was gonna say, like- It's definitely public defender energy.you guys have, like, a seance room.Yeah.Like, we're all d- walking around the- "Hey, guys, we have a highlight video.You know, we don't like the cops video.We're gonna watch this all together before we go out there and-" It's like, it's like people listen to music before they go into court.We watch videos of the cops being- Police brutality, right.to get ready to fight them in court.Oh my God.That's so funny.That's such a PD thing.No wonder you guys are always angry.But it's so funny.Like, there is, like, certain things that are just PD energy.Yeah.It's like, you must be a PD.Yeah.But I'm not mad about it.You're like, "Whatever."So theygenerally the rule of thumb is police are allowed to use non-deadly force to detain people as, like, reasonably necessary, so nothing that's considered extra force or unnecessary force is really the word I'm using.But I think obviously if there is, is an active threat, there is potential to perceive that there is, you know, somebody's, like, life is gonna be on the line or whatever, then that's different, because then police can use deadly force and there's a reason they have guns.Right.So- And they will, and they will use them and they will fire them.They don't like writing the reports after, but that's tough shit and you know- Yeah, I mean, I don't think they're thinking about the report.No, not that, not at that time.During the- Not at that point.Yeah.Like, "Fuck, I have to write a report now."Yeah, right.Yeah, that's the last thing that's probably going on in their mind."Ah, shit.Paperwork."Yeah, no.Definitely not, but- That's probably something that crosses their mind when they have to take someone to- for a DUI or something.Yes, paperwork.That's why there's a- very few officersthey're always like, "Oh, I'll call in the DUI unit."Yeah.Yeah."DUI will come handle this."Yeah."I was just ass- I was just assing stopping."So they can write a very short, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, I just stopped him.I don't know.""I gave him a citation, I exhibited signs and here it is."Oh, he, he smelled like booze and I called somebody else.I"I, then I stood there and I just waved on traffic- Yeah.because I didn't wanna be involved in that DUI investigation.We get that all the time.Yup.That happens all the time.And then you have the people that love to do the DUIs.Well, and you have the DUI guys.Yeah.Like some of the DUI guys love it.They love it.They love it.They love it.Yeah.They love DUI.Some of them love it.Some of the DUI guys- They're like the same people that you see-They are, yeah.Some of them can talk about, like, DUIs like people talk about sports.They just, they fucking love it.It's so true.But- It's like we're sitting there listening to it in trial, and they're just likeCertain times that you're listening in trial, and you're just like, really boring."So boring.Some parts of DUI cl- cases- Some parts of DUI cases are very boring.Very boring.Especially when you're getting into the technical aspects of how a breathalyzer works.Yeah.It's like, I would beI've, I- This is not the sexy part of criminal defense.No.It's like during a direct examination I'm asking the, the officer to explain it, and then I'm just looking over at the jury and they're just like, their eyes is, are glazed and they're justThis is so boring, like, do you- They're like, "Is it lunchtime?"They're, "Do you always have to do this?"Yeah.And you're like- It's like, "No."You're like, "I don't even know what you're saying.""I only, I only have to do this in breath cases, folks.Don't worry about"Really?I just look over at the jury, like, "Hey, it's okay.We're gonna get through this together.Just know this machine works really well."Yeah.And I'm gonna make it sIt, it's complicated, and the, the PDs are gonna have trouble trying to challenge this, so.Yeah.There's not much to say.There's- No.There were a couple public defenders that had, like, the same lines of challenges for theThere's diabetes, high blood sugar, low blood sugar, whatever.Well, yeah, yeah, but they're, likeThere was, there was one that I remember that would get up and cross-examine the, um, the specific officer that talks about the breathalyzer machine.And he would, like, challenge him as if this was the case where, like, there was some deep air, deep lung air, like, molecule or thing that could've been off in this case.And the, the officer would have the same answers every single time and would just be like, "No."What?You're like, "No.""That's not a thing."Because when- The guy's like, the guy's lHe, he blew into the machine, he had a ton of alcohol on, in his system, and it, it regisI mean, it's very, it's very simple for- Like, yeah, cut and dry.Yeah.you know.Yeah.That's definitely just like, the not fun parts.But- No.That's funny that they would do it every single time and you're like, "This is the same song and dance we do."It's just a different jury, different defendant, same judge- Sometimes-same defense attorney.Sometimes it's like that with, with DUI trials.ItA lot of times it's like that because you're going over the field sobriety exercises and you're going over the actual DUI investigation, and a lot of those questions are always the same.Yeah.But, um, I tried to mix it up- Yeah.and do my direct examinations a little bit different in each case, and just, um, because otherwise- Yeah, or you get bored.The problem isn't that I would get bored.It's if I am bored and the jury can tell that I'm bored, then they're gonna be like, "Oh, this is-" Boring." boring."So, I would try to do my best to make it as interesting as possible.Yeah.And kind of control the, the environment.So not let the officer give very long-winded, kind of- The ones who love to talk about DUIs.nerdy science answers.Right, yeah.You're like, "Let's condense this."Yeah."Let's make this"Yeah.And I would just ask for, for the benefit of all of us, us being the jury- The collective.but mostly being me.Yeah.You're like, "I'm trying to get to lunch."Yeah."I would like to not have to do this right now, so let's do"So, when it comes to citizen's arrests, and we did discuss this for the most part, but there are charges you can catch if you, thereIt was not a crime that you were trying to stop, and that could be like false imprisonment, battery, um- Kidnapping.Yeah, kidnapping.Or br- brandishing a firearm, which now it's open carry, so actually no.Nevermind.Well, it would be unlawful exIt would be improper exhibition of a firearm.Impro- yeah.Or, or an agg assault- Yes.depending on how you did it.Yeah.Because if you held the person at- Pointing a gunpoint-at gunpoint.So, thereIn essence, in order for you to make a citizen's arrest, you better be sure that it is a felony that you are making that arrest on, and that you're doing so in as reasonable a way as possible, you know?Yeah.Yeah.Well, like, there's like a, like a, like a level of force that can only be used, and this is like under self-defense laws, which we'll do a c- on a different episode.But you can only use force to protect somebody else or, you know, somebody's property or whatever, if it was like an imminent threat in the moment.So, if like there was no imminent threat, then you have to be careful about how you're going about the citizen's arrest, because then you could be charged with crimes.Which is like un- like I said, like battery or whatever.So, like, make sure, I guess, not only is it a crime, but the way you do it, it can't be with c- a certain amount of force.You've got to be careful.All these rules, that's why people just mind their own business.That is the best- Honestly, that is the best piece of advice.Mind your own business, literally.It's so, I mean, it's like, hey, well, if you wanna stop, you wanna be a hero, just wait.Yeah.There's laws that prevent you- Just be like-from being a hero, and there are-"You cannot exit from here."Just don'tDon't touch.No touching.Don't, don't take out your gun.No touching, no guns.You just walk up to the person, you say, "Stop it.""And now we're gonna wait for the police to get here."Yeah.The person will be like, "Okay."Yeah."All right."That criminal will be like, "Yes, sir."Oh.Well, because you did this correctly- Yes.I'm now- I'm definitely gonna give you some grace.I feel arrested, right.You know, I was gonna be belligerent during this arrest, but now that it's a citizen's arrest, I'm not gonna be belligerent anymore.Thank you so much for doing your, for your service.Yeah, right.Thank you.I think that wraps up today's episode, so if you liked listening to us, make sure you check the show notes and subscribe to our newsletter.Like, comment, and subscribe on all platforms, Come Back With A Warrant dot pod.Leave us a 5star review, and if you did not like listening to us- Come back with a warrant.