Welcome back to Come Back with a Warrant. I'm Monica Ishak. And I'm Brandon Dinetz. Last week, we told you how we went from courtroom rivals to podcast hosts. This week, we're taking you inside the decision to become a criminal defense attorney. The stuff we actually deal with. Clients, courtroom, and chaos. Some of it's hilarious, some of it's terrifying, all of it's true. And like always, this podcast is not legal advice. It's real, unfiltered, and for entertainment only. If you need to speak with a lawyer, call one. Or better yet, call us.
Right. Welcome back. It's so nice to be here with you again. Yes. Yeah. Always love being here. Always a pleasure. And that intro music is badass every time. Yes. I love it. I'm a fan. Yeah, me too. I vibe with it every time we get going. So we're back with you again today. Today we're going to be talking about the decisions to become a criminal defense attorney. We're going to talk about what people get wrong about being criminal defense attorneys. And
At the end, we're gonna talk a little bit about some trending stories in the news that are related to criminal defense. So we'll get to that also. But kick us off, Monica, from the top. We did talk a little bit about your journey to criminal defense in the first episode, but I think there's more to that. So before we talk about myself and how I got here,
Let's talk about your transition because obviously you were a former prosecutor Which is? The point here, you know, well, yeah Point of the podcast the show. Yeah, I took a path where I started my career at the state attorney's office and I knew that ultimately what I wanted to do was criminal defense
I knew from a very early age that I wanted to do this job. That's a combination of having some people in my family life that went through some criminal law issues and I saw them interact with the criminal defense attorney, just TV and movies growing up. It made me want to be a courtroom trial attorney, but specifically do criminal defense because it's, let's be clear, it's the sexiest part of the law. It's the best part of the law.
Yeah. So I knew that that's what I wanted to do. And when I was in law school, I spoke to a professor of mine about the path that I needed to take. And I had already spent the summers interning for a criminal defense attorney and I didn't know exactly what to do. This person put me in touch with a pretty prominent criminal defense attorney in Broward County. And that person told me if I wanted to find myself in a position where I was representing people eventually.
The best way to start would be at the state attorney's office and the best place to do that was in Palm Beach County. So I applied to the state attorney's office in Palm Beach County and was lucky enough to get the job. And I knew that my time there was gonna be spent learning and understanding how prosecutors do their job, understanding specifically how that office makes decisions with
you know, how far to prosecute people or how lenient to be or what type of discretion you have. I knew that I would get the experience of being in front of a different judge constantly. And I knew that I would have trial experience. Yeah. All of those were things that were true and they were, you know, they're invaluable to my career. And after spending
four years prosecuting cases and doing exactly what I wanted to do in that job, I left and made the switch and switched over to representing people. And you've been doing this now for years now, like I think longer. I've been a criminal defense attorney longer than I was a prosecutor. I've been a criminal defense attorney for five, six years and five, six years. I was a prosecutor for a little under four.
Yeah. Yeah. Time flies. That's so crazy. Yeah. Yeah. And I got a great opportunity out right when I left the state attorney's office to go and work at a criminal defense firm. And I did that and then switched and transitioned and opened up BD Law. And I've had that for the past just almost a year. And that's, you know, I am very lucky to say that I did what I wanted to do.
what I wanted to be when I was a kid, I got to grow up to do and now, you know, in addition to being a dad, I get to be a criminal defense attorney. It's very cool. It's very rewarding and I love it. Yeah. Yeah. That's so cool. And you also talked about how like you, well, you told me and I mentioned before, but you were in theater, which yes, I was a theater kid growing up. People that
know me personally know that and love to rip on me for it. But I was in shows and musical theater in high school and yeah, it was very, very cool. And all of that gave me what I have today. My ability to perform in a courtroom has been built on a foundation that was being a theater kid. like, can you give me more about how
Because I'm interested and I'm like, maybe I should do some improv or something. Some like acting. mean, the truth is being in theater, you're taught to position yourself in certain ways, to project in certain ways, to interact with an audience in certain ways. And if you can transition that into a career, which I have been lucky enough to do, you know, you need a career that allows you to, there's not a lot of careers that'll give you the
tools, platform. Yeah. And being a criminal defense attorney, being a trial lawyer, when I can be in front of a jury, I'm relying on a lot of the things that I learned as a kid. You know, how to project, how to talk to them, how to change the tone in my voice. And, you know, I would like to say how to be, you know, charming at times, how to be angry at times, how to be it. I mean, it
gave me a very strong foundation to be a criminal defense attorney. And I think whether it's like debate in high school or theater, those are the types of things that will give a foundation for being a trial lawyer. Yeah, will prepare you for sure. Especially because like I had the experience where I, for me, I wanted to go into criminal defense, but I was scared of public speaking. I was scared of trial. So when I got to law school and I did trial ad, I was like whispering in court. Like I was
Fake court, obviously, but like I was scared shitless. Like I was like did not have and some people were naturals. Like people just like got up there and did an opening and like maybe the opening made no sense. Like who cares at the time, but like they performed it or they like did it well. And I was like, how do I get there? You know, like, I don't know if I can do criminal defense because I really was so scared of public speaking or being kind of on the stage in that sense. So like even just practicing being kind of like the center of attention in a way, training confidence.
Yeah, the name of the game in I think most careers and most areas of life is the ability to convey confidence. Yeah, I think I have a strong ability to do that. I like to and I am confident and there's you know, there's something behind that. I am confident in what I'm doing. If you can convey confidence, that's the most effective way to communicate with people. That's the most effective way to get change. That's the most effective way to.
present in front of somebody. And whether that's talking to other lawyers, talking to judges, talking to juries, talking to clients, you have to be able to convey that confidence. That is, whether I'm actually as confident on the inside as I'm portraying is a different story. There's that fake it till you make it. I mean, half of this job is imposter syndrome. So...
Especially especially starting out like when you're in the beginning you're like I like yeah I've practiced in school or whatever like for me at least but I was like I don't know you saw my first trial I was like Wasn't bad Definitely not my best but there's always a starting point. Yeah for sure and You know the confidence part of what you're saying is so true because people see through that like people can see when you don't really believe in what you're saying like
If or if you're not saying things with conviction and if you're defending somebody that's facing any sort of jail time, even if it's 60 days, you know, you need to be able to like be confident or show that you're confident in whatever you're saying, you know, and there's nothing worse than like having your lawyer being up there and like being like, I don't know what to say or like I'm, you know, being feeling scared, but like imagine how your clients feeling, you know, I horror stories all the time. I, I, there's a situation that I'm aware of in Broward County right now where
an individual is being represented by the public defender and he's having an unfortunately stereotypical time being represented by the public defender. His case has been passed over a bunch of times. There's not a lot of work being done. It's the unfortunate side of having a government lawyer appointed. The reason that I bring that up is that's a situation where
He has an attorney that is not portraying confidence, that goes in front of a judge, that tries to get a bond hearing or tries to get something done, and they're stammering, they're afraid, they're not doing what they need to do, and he's getting nothing. He's not getting a judge that's responsive. Part of portraying confidence, as a criminal defense attorney, you have to be able to speak to your clients effectively.
and you have to be able to tell them really the way it is because you're not always giving the advice. You're not always giving them what they want to hear. You need to be able to do that and you need to be able to stand behind the recommendations you make or the advice that you give. That's, you got to be confident to do that. When you're addressing the court, it's the same way. can't be unsure or stammer or you need to have it together.
That's thinking on your feet sometimes because you're getting questions that you may not have been prepared for. And that goes back to, know, how did you learn? How did you train? Whether it's mock trial or theater or whatever it is that gives you that those, you know, yeah, how do I do this? How do I react? That all plays in. You definitely need to like practice for trial, you know, not not like actually before the trial that you're doing, but.
Cause like I remember like, there's just, it's so funny, like thinking of things I used to do as like a new lawyer. I used to like drive to work saying my opening and like now I'm like, I could never do that. That would give me so much anxiety because like I have now the practice and the experience to just deliver an opening after I prepare it. Now I do an outline, you know, and I just like review it a few times. I know my case inside and out, but before it was like, I needed to be this like.
lawyer that knew every word that was on my paper and like I needed to my paper up there. I need to be at the podium and that was because I didn't really trust myself to lawyer. Yeah. So like thinking back, I'm like, my God, like that's so cringy. Well, yeah, I mean, but the it's, know, everything is stylistic and everything is especially talk about performance. It's interesting because when you're in front of a jury or you're in front of an audience,
If they don't know that you're making a mistake, they don't know that you made a mistake. Only you know that you made a mistake. If you forget a line in a script, only you know you forgot that line in Maybe other people on stage do, maybe other people at your council table know. All about adapting. Being able to adapt on your feet and keep going. And also being human enough to know if you make a mistake to be able to backtrack and fix that mistake and then pick up where you left off.
what makes you effective in the courtroom or as a communicator in general. Yeah. I, there was, think the shift for me was when I was like, okay, instead of just trying to be this robotic lawyer, the lawyer that I think that I need to be, or that people expect me to be, I should just be me. You know I mean? And that made it so like the pressure just like lifted, like I was like, okay, I, all I need to do is just know my case, you know, like I don't really need to have every word memorized and like being able to acknowledge, like if I,
One time, I don't know if I think actually maybe this trial was with you. It was a DUI and I was, I was like pretending to do the heel to toe and I actually tripped like on accident. I wasn't trying to do that as like part of my closing, but my point was that, you know, those tasks are not built for to check if somebody sober or not. And, I tripped and I was like,
So embarrassed. Then like the learning moment for me was that like I should like I should just like acknowledge like it's fine. Like I can make a joke about it or something like it's sure. Yeah. You show how difficult it is even when you're sober to do it. Right. Not drinking on the right. Exactly. You're not drinking during the middle of the trial. So you could say it was clearly as difficult to do. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, being able to like acknowledge and be like, oh, well, whatever, you know, because jurors are human. They need to connect with you. And like if they're just seeing you as this robotic lawyer, that is just like
wanting to be this perfect person, like they're going to be like, who's this inauthentic, like fake. Robotic lawyer, I feel like I feel like there's definitely a shift with jurors when they like that, you can tell when they like the lawyer, which like obviously they're instructed that you should like the lawyer. That shouldn't come into play. But I think it doesn't come into play in that sense, but I think it comes into play with connection and what you say. And like if they do like you, they will listen to you and they should listen to
Hopefully you want them to listen to you and what you're saying and your arguments and your questions and all those things. So I think that does kind of come into play at some points and it should when it comes to like connection. But obviously if it's just like, I like that lawyer's outfit better than that's something different. I will say a quick, a quick anecdote, a quick story. I was a prosecutor. was prosecuting a DUI case and there was a judge.
a retired judge from New York that would come and watch our trials. Her name is Judge Snyder. Shout out to Judge Snyder. She would come and watch trials and she would give feedback to the young prosecutors about how they were doing and how their style, how effective they were, really give extensive feedback from someone that has a lot of experience. She's a retired judge.
She would come and watch a lot of my trials and it was always a privilege because she would always speak about, she would tell me the things that she liked and the things that she didn't really like and she always had great feedback from me. She came to watch this one DUI trial and I had gotten up during the trial and I was cross-examining the defendant and that's so infrequent in misdemeanor court to have a prosecutor cross-examining a defendant but
That's what was happening. And I was, you know, chomping at the bit. I took advantage of it. I was super aggressive. And one thing that when I work with trial students now that I tell them now is you don't be an asshole until the jury gives you permission. You don't be disrespectful to a witness. You don't act overly aggressive because the jury is either going to think it's fake or they're going to think it's unwarranted.
I was really aggressive. It wasn't warranted. And I was just very aggressive on this one witness. I kept questioning him really hard and I was just trying to make it seem like this guy had committed this DUI and it was so clear, blah, blah. I asked some questions. They were so, so effective. I was done asking the questions and I start walking back and Judge Schneider, who's in the back of the courtroom, waves me over.
And I walked back to her and she said, you know, you're not trying a homicide, right? And I got it. I said, yeah, okay. I'm, I was a little bit excited there and my cross examination. So I then took into account, you know, the human side of what was going on. This guy had no criminal record other than this case. He by all accounts was not a bad guy. It was a DUI and I had just gone after him, you know, way too.
way too aggressively on cross-examination. So during the closing arguments, I made it a point to walk up to the jury box, put my hands on the jury box and say, you know, ladies and gentlemen, while I was cross-examining the defendant, I got a little excited. I got a little out of hand and I got overly aggressive and caught up in the moment. And that happens and you know, we're all human, but I in no way think that this guy is a bad individual.
I think that he did commit a crime and I'm gonna show you what that crime was and how he committed it, but I can leave my own theatrics out of it. And I remember saying that to them and the case ended. I don't even remember if we won or lost, I have no idea. But I remember the judge saying to me after, she had never seen anybody do anything like that, where I was a human being. I said to the jury,
I was overly aggressive and overly excited as a prosecutor and I'm a human being too and you know, but I don't need to be and I don't want you to take away from the credibility of my case because of it. That's what it all boils down to. But you can be a human being in trial and in front of a jury and you know, it all comes down to being able to adapt and perform the right way.
Exactly. Every- every time it's a learning lesson, even though you had all the tools like leading up to that point and you were probably a great trial attorney at that point. Thank you. You know, you baby attorney. Yeah. But you still had lessons to learn. That's why I said, like, I do believe, like, even when we are at our best, there's always that like more things we can improve on. So especially as trial lawyers, because there's always things going down in trial that you're like. I wasn't expecting that. That's.
A lot of trial is things that happen and you just were not expecting because you can prepare and plan as much as possible, but there are certain things that happen. There's certain things get said and you're just like, what? Yeah. You wouldn't. And certain times like the rulings to you're just like, you're so confident that like you'll be the judge won't even entertain that type of request or that motion. And then it's granted. And you're like, wait, what? I'd case again.
again comes back to confidence because there are circumstances where you may not be completely right, but you are super confident that you're right and you get the right you get a call in your favor during the trial like take it and run, you know, just, know.
If it's a peelable, that's a whole other issue, but that's not that's a different podcast. That's not this show. We don't do appeals. Yes, exactly. Nothing against appellate attorneys. I know some great ones. Yeah. Yeah, we need them in our life. They're actually the ones that make sure that we do our job correctly. So, you know, I know we- we talked a lot about trial, but this episode is more about why we chose to defend and do criminal defense. My journey is
Definitely, I guess I would say it is kind of personal too because I went into law school wanting to be a criminal defense attorney, but I didn't, like I said, want to be like on stage. But let me backtrack. I actually, the reason why I was even interested in criminal defense was because I was in college and I didn't know like what I wanted to do with my life. And I just put on the OJ Simpson trial and on YouTube and I was like, that is so badass.
How cool is that? Because I thought he was definitely guilty. Doesn't matter. Exactly. Yeah. So I was like, wow, like that's so crazy. So I was like, I kind of want to do something badass. So that to me was criminal defense. So I was like, let me sign myself up for law school. The trial of the century, the pinnacle trial that everybody references when they're like, this isn't that trial. That's the one that made you want to jump in and do it.
I should kudos to Johnny Cochran and his defense team because that's the reason you know, but I ended up actually ironically right before I got into law school. Sorry, right before I started law school. I was already in accepted. I was moving to Miami and during this time my life like, you know, the summer before law school is like so fun. I feel like I was doing nothing with my time, like just traveling, like doing whatever I wanted, you know, and no responsibilities.
I was in a relationship and the person I was in a relationship with got in got arrested and That was like a whole like other experience because I was like what are the odds? that this is like what I'm pursuing and this is like the person I'm in a relationship with gets arrested and What was it for? Oh my god. Can you tell us what it was for? Is it embarrassing? It is for me. Okay, whatever
But it was- it was a serious felony. Oh, okay. It a really serious felony and it was out of another state and he was getting he was in Florida visiting me for my graduation and He ended up getting like going through the whole extradition process. No way I had to hire My family and I had to
No way. And I was involved. I was like at first appearance. And I was like, what are the odds? Like, I had no idea. I had nothing. You know, I didn't know anything. Wow. So that was that was kind of it wasn't like the reason I was already pursuing it, but it was just also like it was just odd to me that that happened at that time. And then when I went into law school, I think it was just kind of my like that push I needed because I think I really would have
backed out of criminal defense if I didn't have that experience because of my fear. him for the whole case? No, like when I like, we broke up shortly after, not because of that. When you realized he did it, you were like, I'm out. No, no, no, Did not hold out against him, but it was more so, you know, that relationship was meant to be over. Anyways, don't want to talk too much about that. He could be listening. No, I'm just kidding. I doubt he is, but you never know. Come back for the warrant.
They did have a warrant. Yeah. OK. I was like, yikes. There you go. But anyways, I ended up getting into law school and actually trying trial ad and, you know, doing all these things. And my friend who was ended up becoming a prosecutor is the one that really encouraged me. She was like, you need to sign up for trial ad. And like, if you're interested, you need to like be serious about it. And thank God for her, because I honestly I think I would have been like, no, I'm good. You know, I'll take negotiations. Yeah.
Um, and then, you know, I ended up starting at the PDs, like things just like, it was just like a building block for me. Like each thing was a building block and falls into place. Yeah. Led me to where I am now. So I am so in the PDs office, I've already talked about how great of an experience that was. Um, which I think they also in Palm Beach, at least I don't want to talk for other offices. Um, and in Miami, they're a great office too. They definitely prepared me to be like the best lawyer, criminal defense lawyer I could be. Um, I think they're all great attorneys over there. So.
Are you the first lawyer in your family? I am a first-gen lawyer. too. Yeah. Yeah. But now there's a bunch now because I have my wife is a lawyer and then my first cousin is a lawyer in New York. yeah, but and my sister-in-law brother-in-law, we got a bunch of lawyers. Yeah, but it's still different because you're all still kind of like the same generation. Right. But when you're like when you have someone that comes before you and is an attorney, I really think that gives you like
kind of a head start in a good way. Like you have more perspective on the career. Like, I really didn't understand how important it was to be even involved in like bar organizations or like, you know, being a part of the legal community and all these things like I didn't like, I feel like those are things like just kind of common knowledge that you would have before getting into it. So I think it's, it comes with a lot of challenges being a first-gen lawyer. But I think it's like also really rewarding because it's like, damn, I made it this far and I don't even have
Yeah, well, thanks mom and dad. Yeah But I know we're getting a little off track
No, no, mean, not really. mean, I, you know, it's we've talked, we've talked a lot about the choice that we made to become criminal attorneys. And I think there's a lot of misconceptions about being criminal defense attorneys to begin with. And we could probably spend an entire episode talking about that. But the truth is, the question that comes up is how do you
represent the bad guy. And I have never looked at it that way at all. The majority of the clients that I have have never been in trouble before are people like you and me. They could be professionals. A lot of them are professionals, have hard work, know, hard working people, parents, grandparents that find themselves in a situation where they for the first time are in trouble.
can't tell you how many of my clients call me and tell me, you know, in the 60 years of my life and the 50 years of my life and the 70 years of my life, never was, I've never been in trouble. I've always avoided it. And they're the ones that are my clients. They're not the bad guys. Okay. They are the defendant. They are accused of committing a crime, but they're not the bad guys. They're the people that are in the worst possible situation, need the most amount of help and
I want to be one of the people that do that and provide that help for them. Yeah. Well, and also like on that's- that's I think one group of people that get arrested. There's also other people where I think that there- there's like a lot of trauma in certain communities. And this is what I was exposed to as a public defender. And I'm sure you like you saw it from a different point of view, but you definitely saw it as a prosecutor where it's like, you know, people come from certain communities and they either are
They either are struggling with substance abuse issues, mental health issues, or, you know, they're always in fight or flight mode or all of them, you know, like they're there's just so many circumstances that like come into play and then to people's like decision making and just certain people do not have the tools and are not taught. And this is not an excuse for their behavior. It's an explanation. I always say that, when people are like, how can you represent somebody you know, they did it or they like they committed murder and they know that they did it like it's like. First of all,
There is actually, let me not say there isn't one probable cause affidavit, but there are so many times where I read a police report and I'm like, first of all, I doubt this is exactly what happened. And usually it's not exactly what happened. And then when I speak to my client, it's always something that even if they made a bad decision, it's always something that I'm like, I see how you got there. You know what I mean? Like I'm not.
I don't want say every single time, but a lot of times, you know, it's like, it wasn't the right decision at the time and hindsight's always 20, 20. And like, some people are regretful. Some people aren't whatever it is. But then you look back and you're like, I guess like considering like, if you don't know any better, you're not going to do any better. So, and at the PD's office that really like, I, that was like almost all my cases, you know, I didn't really have, I, there were some, a handful of people that were like first time getting arrested and they were like 60 years old. And I was like, my God. Yeah. And I'm not saying the majority of my clients are
First time 60 year olds, but I understand there's a significant, if you are at a disadvantage because of your socioeconomic standing and you are coming into the criminal justice system at an early age, oftentimes you get looped into a vicious cycle of getting in trouble, owing money to the court or having probation terms that you're not able to complete.
And then you now have a new issue that arises because the money you owe suspends your license and you get a suspended license case and now that's open and that violates your probation or you have had prior, you know, small prior offenses, prior traffic offenses that now are adding up to a jail sentence or suspending your license. And then you're trapped in that cycle. There are so many people that lose their license and are unable to
carry on with their lives because they can't drive. Even though they don't have a license, they're still driving and they're picking up new charges, which are new fines and it's new types of suspensions on their license. And it just, you know, it's a door that doesn't close. When I was a prosecutor and would see that happening, I did what I could to try to break it up. If there was a way to do it, I would try to break it up.
There are ways, are, you know, whether it's offering a lesser sentence, whether it's modifying the charges, or it's taking it, you know, looking at the case and saying, at this point, the right thing to do here is probably give this guy some sort of lesser sentence or a lesser charge because he doesn't have the ability to pay to get out of this situation.
So even if I want to just drop the charges, if there's still some fine that's associated with it, that's still something that people get stuck with. And yeah, that's a vicious cycle that people get caught up with. Yeah, and that's something that would be out of the prosecutor's hands, like costs and stuff. They're associated with statutes. That's not something you can change. So that's something that you can keep in mind, but not necessarily something you can change. So there are a group of people that get
unfortunately thrown into the criminal justice system and can't get out of it. You know, they're- they're trapped and we'll throughout this show, we'll talk about different cases and different examples of things like that. So I know we'll get into that and in due time. Yeah. And there's also like the aspect of like, you know, everybody deserves a defense, right? Everybody does it like if. A family member or even myself.
ends up in a situation where my clients are, I would hope that my attorney is fighting like hell despite whether I did it or not, you know? like, it's having that. And that's something I really noticed between criminal and civil is like in criminal, really can say, because we have a lot of defenses or things associated with the Constitution that civil practice does not necessarily, you know? So like the Fourth Amendment, Fifth Amendment, all these things that
come into play and if you put that out there in the courtroom, I think that's something in criminal court everybody respects. Maybe we might not agree that that's a constitutional issue in this specific case, but once the defense files any sort of motion or makes any sort of constitutional violation claim, everybody entertains it because that's something that is so serious it will come back on appeal.
Yeah, that's true. So and that's it's it really made me see a perspective of like, OK, like this is really where I belong to, because I was like, I felt like I was. No offense to civil attorneys, because they really are, you know, I think that they're if they're doing it, they're built for it, but I am not. like, I need to be doing something that's fulfilling for me. So that was another aspect of it that I was like, OK, like I really do like that.
We may not always agree, but at least we all respect what it is that we are abiding by. And it's like, we all strive to, hopefully we all strive to, which I've noticed, you know, most prosecutors will, they're not going to disregard your motion to suppress. You know what I mean? They're not going to be like, I'm not worried about that. Like, no, they're going to call it. You know, there's usually a phone call before it's actually set up in court or you're scheduled for court. It's usually we're talking about it, you know? Yeah, that's, that's a good point. So.
I think that's also important. Yeah. Having- having that zealous representation and that being able to have somebody advocate for you. There's a reason why it's a constitutional right. Yeah. And it's so important. So the work that we do for our clients is so important because we are upholding those rights and protecting those rights. And that's one of the things that makes our jobs great and makes this country great that we have those- those rights in place. Yeah.
And then also the fact that, you know, the burden of proof is so high in criminal court that I think that there is a difference between whether someone actually did it and if they're found guilty. Correct. And it has to do with the evidence, not what we secretly know at the defense table. Well, the question, the question that we get all the time is how do you defend somebody that you know
Did it or you know that they're guilty and Or do you ask your clients whether or not they did it never do I couldn't give two shits Because that's not well, I wouldn't go that far. It's a self defense. Correct. That's different. But honestly the- the name of the game is what the state attorney's office is able to prove. Yeah That's what this is come down to so whether or not my clients did it
or didn't do it. I don't care. I don't care. And I also don't have any judgment against them for doing it or not doing it. I don't care. What I care about is, is the proof there that the amount of jurors will unanimously agree that beyond a reasonable doubt, the state attorney's office has met each and every element of the charges that they are bringing. Can they do that? If the answer is no, and I believe it's no, and often I do,
then I fight like hell. And that's it. That's what it comes down to. It really doesn't matter if they did it or not. But in terms of...
you know, how the system is set up as well. Like there is this and I, I love that I was a public defender. I wear it like a badge of honor. So I don't really ever talk shit about them. But obviously people have their own experiences with PDs and you know, sometimes they call my office and we ended up having a conversation, but I think that's
Usually, especially if it's in this county, it's not, it's the exception, it's not the rule. Like I do believe that office and that's because of my own experience, you know, so, but there is kind of this perception and stereotype that, you know, not everybody kind of gets the same shot in the system as, you know, other people who may be arrested and they have another attorney. There's a, but there's also a difference between having a private attorney and having a public defender.
I mean, the ability to afford an attorney gives you certain advantages over having a public defender. It doesn't give you an advantage necessarily over the quality of the attorney or the quality of the representation, but it may give you an advantage in terms of, you know, a private lawyer is less busy than a public defender and they can devote more time to phone calls with the client or time spent specifically on that case.
Yeah, sure there- there are those types of advantages, but that doesn't take away from the advocacy and the person that's ultimately the lawyer that's ultimately in place if the Often I went against public defenders that were much better than private attorneys, I was just gonna ask you as a prosecutor. Did you notice a difference often and the truth? You know, in Palm Beach County. There is an excellent criminal defense bar. The private attorneys are excellent. I think for the most part and
the public defender's office was really good. So it's difficult to say in that county, but I will tell you there were times where I would be in trial against a public defender and I found them to be better than some of the private attorneys. And a lot of that is just because some of the private attorneys just like, you now not in trial all the time. And I'm not constantly in front of the same judge and I'm not as polished necessarily as somebody that is
in front of the same judge every day as multiple trials, you know, a month in front of that judge. That's- that's different. That's a different level of being sharp. And when you're a prosecutor or a public defender in a specific courtroom, that's you get that- that level. But there's still the disadvantages and also the- the Public defenders and the state attorney's office, you know, you work a certain number of hours and that's- that's that. Yes. OK.
There's no overtime now. So. The private criminal defense attorney, you know, I've made jokes and I made jokes on this show. My phone is always on and it really is always on it. There's- I could be working. You know, it's a 24 hour job. is and that's something that's different than a public defender because.
My clients can reach me at nine o'clock at night. Yes. And I don't know most public defenders that can be reached by their clients at nine o'clock at night. Yeah. It's not a thing. No. And they're not getting paid to do it. Correct. So that's real. I think it really depends on who it is that you're dealing with and to the attorney. How they practice law, because obviously, if they- they choose to take more cases on in private practice, then they might be just as overworked as the PD.
But which I've had experience with. So which I don't think is the right way to practice. I think that the best- I love the best part about private practice in criminal defense is that my clients, they choose me and I choose them. You know what I mean? Versus other people when I'm appointed to their case, when I was on when I was actually I'm on the wheel now. So technically I have some of those.
situations, but I currently don't thank God, where my client doesn't want me on their case. And they're like, I want a real lawyer, whatever the case is, you know, and that's when you're- when you're a PD, usually hear that. And you're really fighting for them and they don't want your help. And you're like, dude, I'm trying to fight for you. And you're over here like not really helping yourself. You're creating friction between us, which is affecting your case because I can't really move.
I can't do much when you're not on board. I mean, you can, but it's hard to. So it's just honestly, I think it's- it comes down to the attorney. If they're if they love what they do also, like I think that's huge. If they're if they love being a criminal defense attorney, if it's their niche, you know, there are so many people that say they do criminal defense. Do they really do criminal defense? And then like some people I see their names on the dock. I'm like, who is this person? You know, there's- there's all the same.
There's one law firm in Miami that advertises heavily in Miami that when I was a prosecutor, that firm would be on the docket all the time. I'm not going to say that name of the firm, but the main partner from that firm never ever came to court. And I had a running joke at times with the attorneys from that firm that would come in where I would say, oh, I'll drop the case if your boss shows up and I kill.
Because his name was on the yeah, the guy's name was on the docket all the time and it was like I've never seen this I've never even never seen this gentleman Heavy advertiser in Miami though. Yeah, but he made the dock in Palm Beach County though. He's good in marketing He had enough. Yeah. Yeah, that's So one other thing that we you know, obviously on this show we're gonna talk a lot about the criminal law profession and ourselves and
different things that, you our experiences and, you know, all along that line. One of the other things we're going to talk about is current events and trending stories and topics that are in the news. So one thing that I wanted to talk about that just came up, and I don't know if people have heard about this story yet, but Celsius, okay, there's an issue with Celsius and high noon.
There's a recall notice that was posted by the Food and Drug Administration that High Noon has said an unspecified number of its beach variety packs contain cans that are filled with High Noon vodka seltzer. So what this means is that there are Celsius cans out there that are not filled and Celsius is the caffeinated beverage not filled with the caffeinated beverage are actually filled with alcohol instead.
The Celsius Ashgrove vibe energy drink sparkling blue raspberry edition with a silver top. These were shipped to Florida, New York, Ohio, South Carolina, Virginia and Wisconsin from July 21st to 23rd have alcohol in them. So it's almost like the old school for Locos except not because the old school for Locos intentionally had, you know, alcohol and energy drink, which was like
A crazy combo. was an insane combination. Lethal. They took it off the shelves because it was killing people. The topic that's come up with this story, with this news story, does this create a dream scenario for a criminal defense attorney? Does a defense attorney say, wow, I can't wait to call the prosecutor's office and say, hey, no, my client just drinks a lot of Celsius. There's no way he was DUI.
The answer is no. This falls apart. It doesn't pass the laugh test. The truth of the matter is that involuntary intoxication is not a defense in the state of Florida. So what that means is that because you didn't know you were consuming something that wasn't intoxicant, does that absolve you of the current crime? The answer is no. So would this be an interesting take to say to a prosecutor, hey,
Yeah, would be a fun take, but the odds are very low that you would get a case thrown out because of this specific issue. There's really no, we were talking about it, there's no intent element. is that the state has to prove normal faculties are impaired or your BAC is .08 or above. if there's no intent element, then obviously involuntary intoxication obviously as well is not.
a right is a defense in this case. So unfortunately for people who drink the Celsius Blue Razz between July 21st and 23rd, if they ever they came down, if you are drinking from the silver topped can the silver top Celsius can. Yeah. And we'll share that here. We'll share a picture of that so that you can see it. If you're drinking one of those in one of those states that we mentioned, then there is a good chance you're drinking high noon instead of Celsius.
Imagine like drinking like two of those before work or something. I don't know if the people drink multiple Celsius. I don't know. I'm sure that I'm surely I'm sure someone out in the comments can tell us if they drink multiple Celsius. Let us know if it tastes like high noon if you drink it. Yeah.
Well, that's everything that we have for this episode. Thank you very much for listening. Remember to follow, like, subscribe anywhere that you can, anywhere that you get your podcasts. Yes. And, you know, our handle is comebackwithawarrant.pod on all platforms. So make sure you tune in and follow, like subscribe, like Brandon said. But yeah, thank you for joining us and come back with a warrant. Come back with a warrant. Thank you very much.