Come Back With a Warrant
Episode 33: Epstein Files Series Ep. 3: Did Epstein Really Kill Himself? Body Swap Theory, Kompromat, and the Epstein Files Conspiracies
Hosted by Brandon Dinetz and Monica Ishak
Intro
Brandon: Welcome back to Come Back With a Warrant podcast. I'm Brandon Dinetz.
Monica: And I'm Monica Ishak.
Monica: Before we kick-start this week's episode, this is your reminder that this podcast is not legal advice. It's real, unfiltered, and for entertainment purposes only. If you need to speak with a lawyer, call one. Or better yet, call us.
Brandon: Call us.
Episode
Brandon: All right. So, we've made it to Episode 3 of our three-part series on Jeffrey Epstein and the Epstein files, and in this episode, we are gonna be talking all about the conspiracies that exist around Jeffrey Epstein and the Epstein files. We're not gonna get into all of them, because there are so many and it seems like every time you scroll on Instagram or TikTok you find a new theory to start investigating and going down. But we're gonna talk about some of the bigger conspiracies that exist in the cases and what our take is on them, and kind of where things stand.
Brandon: As we told you in episode one, we talked about the 2008 case and the Palm Beach roots behind Jeffrey Epstein's first, you know, real exposure as a monster to the public, which happened in 2008-2009. In episode 2, we talked to you all about the Epstein files, the 3.5 million that have been released so far, the different players that are involved and some of the people that are really taking the heat right now and facing some of the ramifications of being involved and being associated with Epstein. And now, episode 3, we're gonna talk to you about the conspiracies.
Monica: The biggest one, obviously, is if he's dead or alive.
Brandon: All right. So, the question is —
Monica: That has been going on since the date of his death, literally.
Brandon: So, the question — it's a two-part question. First question, is he alive or is he dead? And if he is dead, did he kill himself or was he killed? There is a mixed bag of answers to all of this, but what it seems like ultimately —
Monica: That man is alive somewhere.
Brandon: Yeah, he is. And it makes a lot of sense that with somebody with the type of connections and power he had, that he would be able to pull off something like that.
Monica: Yeah. Somewhere.
Brandon: You know, one of the things that you mentioned to me, not during an episode, that stuck with me, is why would he kill himself when the first time he went through the rigmarole of going against the government he came out fairly unscathed? Why would he kill himself this time? And I agree with you. I don't think that he would, and I don't think that he did.
Monica: No.
Brandon: What we know is that in 2019 after a bond hearing, Jeffrey Epstein allegedly, after being denied bond, hangs himself in the Metropolitan Department of Corrections in New York, which is the maximum security which has held El Chapo and has held some of the worst of the worst that we've ever had in this country. He was able to somehow exploit a problem with the cameras and a problem with the staff, and was somehow able to find a window of time where he was able to use his bedsheets and hang himself. That's what the narrative is. Okay? This gets called into question in a bunch of different ways.
Brandon: First off, nobody really is buying it out the gate. You know, Attorney General at the time, Bill Barr, is responsible for coming out and trying to explain this mess to the American people as to how this was even possible. And from what we have learned, it sounds like from the jump, Bill Barr — whose father got Jeffrey Epstein hired at the Dalton School, which was his first job that he was not qualified for —
Monica: Another web. Another connection.
Brandon: Another connection — does everything he can to make sure that people aren't questioning whether or not this is a suicide, and the truth is everybody is questioning it.
Brandon: One of the people that questions it off the jump is Jeffrey Epstein's brother. And Jeffrey Epstein's brother hires a private doctor to do a second autopsy, and this doctor says that the bone that was broken in Jeffrey Epstein's neck could not have been broken based on the way that he allegedly hung himself. That he was, in their opinion, was murdered and was silenced, and that's the narrative that they believe is what happened. They believe he is dead, but they believe that he did not kill himself.
Monica: And if he's dead, it's an unlimited list of people that would want him dead. I was gonna say, if he is dead, I would believe that he was taken out. I do not believe he took himself out. That is, like, off the table for me.
Brandon: I agree with you. I think —
Monica: It's not a thing.
Brandon: I think the idea that he — the way that they try to corroborate the suicide and set it up is they say, in the days leading up, he transferred all of his assets to the Virgin Islands —
Monica: Yeah, 'cause he knew he was gonna kill himself. He was outta there.
Brandon: Or he knew he was outta there. He basically realizes that now that he's been denied bond, there's never gonna be a time where he's out of jail for the rest of his life, and that's what the assumption is as to why he actually kills himself. It's just too coincidental that that's what happens. I just don't buy it.
Monica: No. I don't buy it. He is somebody who has gotten — and this is what I was saying to Brandon — he is somebody who has gotten, not just the first time in Palm Beach, but every single time. Even when he got found out that he wasn't qualified to have certain jobs or positions, he has never been held accountable, ever.
Brandon: No.
Monica: Why would somebody who commits suicide usually is somebody that feels down — they have no other choice. Literally. He definitely had options.
Brandon: Of course he did.
Monica: And to say that this man had no options and to try to make the American people believe that is crazy. Like, I think that's crazy.
Brandon: When they raided his house in New York, they found — and I talked about this in a prior episode — they found passports that were fake passports. They found a bag of diamonds. They found the tools that you would need to get out if you were to get out of the country and hide your location, hide your identity, hide your whereabouts. So, the idea that he could get another fake passport in another country is very, very plausible.
Monica: Yeah. Look at who he's connected to all across the world.
Brandon: He could've gotten a passport for any country that he had some sort of ties or connection to, or ones that he didn't have ties or connection to, he probably could've figured out a way to get some sort of passport. Which is what he's doing probably now — is probably somewhere, you know, living out his life in either Paris or Tel Aviv or Canada or somewhere where he's not being —
Monica: Bothered.
Brandon: Looked at, right. And not being chased.
Brandon: One of the most interesting theories about his death, and this is one of the conspiracy theories, is the body swap theory.
Monica: Yeah. Okay? Now, this is an interesting one. This goes down a rabbit hole. This one, I kind of believe it.
Brandon: So, prior to the announcement that he had hung himself, a post comes out on the website 4chan. 4chan is a —
Monica: It's like Reddit. Similar to Reddit.
Brandon: It's a messaging board site. And it's been tied to a lot of bad things over history, but it's, you know, everything from all different types of chat boards online. There's a post that goes out on 4chan that says that Epstein was removed from the jail in the days before his suicide — in the day or so before his suicide, was taken out in a wheelchair with handcuffs on the front, and was brought out by people in military fatigues, and was removed from the jail and somebody else was brought in. And then, all of a sudden, the news comes out about his death. So, this post comes out. It comes out before it's reported that he's dead. So, automatically, it's kind of interesting that this would come out.
Monica: Yeah. How would this individual know that he is not alive at this point?
Brandon: So, what we know now, after the release of the documents, is that the Southern District of New York found that this was something important enough to investigate, so they did. And they filed subpoenas with 4chan and with different banks to try to figure out who was the person that posted that. And they find that this person, Roberto Gravales, is a former corrections officer that was working there —
Monica: That night.
Brandon: At the MDC that night, was working there when Epstein was allegedly taken out of the jail. And this person has been exposed as the person that posted this on 4chan. It corroborates and gives a whole new level of credibility to it, because he actually did work there.
Monica: Yeah. How could he have known that?
Brandon: And this person is saying that at some point before he was switched out — how could he have known that?
Monica: Especially if you're your average joe. Anonymously.
Brandon: Anonymously.
Monica: Not a secret message board, but posted it anonymously, and is saying — hence the subpoenas and the investigation.
Brandon: So, the Southern District of New York finds that there's something there because they're investigating it. And that's what we ultimately find out. We know who the person was that posted it. But the DOJ would be responsible, essentially, if they said that this person was taken out of custody.
Monica: Well, yeah, of course.
Brandon: The Department of Corrections — they're —
Monica: They have a reason to say he was suicided. I mean, the Department of Corrections — that's so much liability.
Brandon: In this post, the person says there was no scheduled transport on their schedules. There was nothing that — this should not have happened. There was nothing planning this. It was not known.
Monica: And then we hear about the issues with the cameras, the issues with guards sleeping or guards not paying attention, because those are what allegedly creates the window of time where things happen. It just doesn't happen, because you and I go into Palm Beach County Jail, let alone a maximum security prison where they house the worst criminals in the United States —
Brandon: Correct.
Monica: And when we walk into the main detention center, there is no place that is not covered by a camera.
Brandon: Correct.
Monica: Yes, there are not guards maybe in every single corner, but there's so much security. So, maybe to the public who hasn't been able to walk through a detention center and see what it's like to be inside, but to say that all these — the cameras glitching, all these guards are sleeping, and all this shit is happening, and that he ended up killing himself as a result? No.
Brandon: Let's be very clear. When his bond is denied and he's no longer allowed to leave, the concern about suicide goes through the roof. So if anything, they would be monitoring him more because they would think, oh, there is a chance that this would happen, and it can't happen on our watch.
Monica: Let alone you have a couple of shmups that are working there that are like patsies that are like, oh, we're taking a nap, or, we're not looking at the cameras. That's bullshit. Like, it's total bullshit.
Brandon: And corrections officers, they are employed by the government. They don't get paid a lot, so they're easy to pay out. With someone who has all the resources, you can make shit happen.
Monica: Correct. And that's what I believe happened. I think that it is highly plausible that he was swapped.
Brandon: Yeah. Somehow, when his body is taken out of the cell, there's a photograph of that. There's a photograph of his lifeless body on a gurney, and it looks very much like him. But it is so easy to fake that. There are all different things they could do. And I'm sure they sent in, if they sent in a body double, that looked just like him. They probably got someone to get plastic surgery, and I don't fucking know. I don't know how they did it, what they did.
Monica: I just find that way more easier — that's easier to believe for me than —
Brandon: It's easier to believe that than that there was an international child trafficking ring that all of the most influential people in the world are involved in.
Monica: Yeah. Like, it's a lot easier to believe that.
Brandon: And the reason why we say that is — because obviously what we're saying in terms of, like, how we know how it works, but also there is corroboration and there is evidence to support that he was swapped. There was a witness, and it was somebody that wouldn't be privy to this information otherwise. So, that's why we're saying this. Not because we're actually, like, you know?
Monica: No, and you know what? Where is that corrections officer? 'Cause that corrections officer, I've not seen him in public. I know the name because of the files being released, but where is that guy? Like, why isn't that guy being interviewed on mainstream media?
Brandon: He's probably MIA.
Monica: Probably. That's the only — probably in hiding or they got rid of him.
Brandon: Yeah. Exactly. 'Cause there's no reason for them not to. Another conspiracy.
Monica: Yeah, another conspiracy. Just a web of conspiracies. Oh my God.
Brandon: Well, it's because we don't have all the information, so we have to come to our own conclusions.
Monica: That's right. And so, I guess the next thing is to talk about, like, if he's — well, I guess we did talk about — well, if he's alive.
Brandon: Yeah.
Monica: 'Cause everybody's posting these photos of him everywhere.
Brandon: There's people that post pictures of him potentially all over the world.
Monica: Allegedly, yeah. In Tel Aviv and Paris. There's pictures that pop up of him all the time. Like, but would he — what about — like, why would he be out and about? Doesn't he have his own island? Like, why wouldn't he be on his island?
Brandon: So, there was a person that flew a drone over the island in the weeks after he was dead.
Monica: And?
Brandon: And see a guy with gray hair that resembles Jeffrey Epstein sitting in his golf cart.
Monica: Shut up.
Brandon: And the guy looks up at the drone, and when he sees the drone, moves back under the golf cart so he's hidden from view, and then is gone, out of sight. So, there is something that puts a person that resembles Jeffrey Epstein back on the island. Now, I think going back to the island would probably be the dumbest thing —
Monica: Yeah, you'd just get killed.
Brandon: Because that would be the first place people would be looking for you if you were to escape from jail. It's probably unlikely it was him.
Monica: But nobody's gonna go look for him over there, if they're saying he's —
Brandon: Somebody did. Somebody took a drone and went over there and looked.
Monica: But did somebody actually go there?
Brandon: They flew the drone over the island. It was right over the island looking at him.
Monica: Is there footage?
Brandon: There's pictures of it, yeah.
Monica: Oh, yeah. But you can't — I mean, it looks from the picture from the drone, it looks like from the top down, you see the gray hair —
Brandon: That's what I'm saying. You can't tell that it's him or not.
Monica: We need to go find out. Someone's gotta go on — whatever.
Brandon: I know. Not me.
Monica: I know. Not me.
Brandon: But the questions become, why is he so important that they would swap a body or kill him or help him escape? Why is he so important?
Monica: When you say they, you're talking about the government?
Brandon: Whomever. Why would they do that? And the answer comes down to what he was doing and what he was good at, and that was getting compromising material on everybody, that kompromat. That is a tactic of clandestine services. So that is to say that it is plausible that he was a spy for one or more governments.
Monica: For sure.
Brandon: CIA, there's involvement with him. There's involvement with Mossad. There's connections in Israel. There's connections to the Russians. The truth of the matter is, he could've been selling to everybody. He could've been selling information to everybody and working for multiple people at once. It's very possible. Or he was just working for one of these governments against everybody else and everybody else's interests. But because of that role, that may be enough to keep him — to say he's important enough of an asset to get him out.
Monica: To save him.
Brandon: To save him. But that's also a reason to kill him, because he's such a big asset, all the things he knows, all the information he has, some of it dies with him if he dies. So that's another reason to put in the death category.
Monica: But do you really think that — I don't know. I'm trying to think. If I were one of these people, I'm trying to put myself in theirs. Like, would they swap them out and then kill him or would they kill him in the detention center? You know what I mean? For someone to go in there and actually carry that out.
Brandon: Who knows? They could've sent in somebody to kill him in the cell and make it look like he hung himself and then that be that.
Monica: Yeah, but like, the body swap even, like, just makes way more sense to me.
Brandon: The body swap theory makes a lot of sense.
Monica: Yeah. Like, the fact that this guy said it beforehand. It's even further corroborated by the brother saying that it was done by murder, because you know what? That body that was in there was murdered.
Brandon: Was murdered. Right. I agree. So I don't think it's inconsistent.
Monica: No, I think it actually goes together to further support that his body was swapped out.
Brandon: Yeah, I agree with you. But again, if his body was swapped out, we could also ask, who swapped his body? Was it him or somebody else?
Monica: Well, he would've had to have had help from different —
Brandon: Exactly.
Monica: And he would've had to have trusted somebody.
Brandon: He would've had the help from different organizations or different —
Monica: And those organizations would very well want him dead.
Brandon: As much as they would want him alive, yeah. Exactly.
Monica: So that's what I'm saying, the body swap theory could be — he could be dead or alive, the result of it. Like, oh, that they took him out of the jail and then just killed him out of the jail and then just got rid of his body.
Brandon: Exactly. Yeah, they could've done that too.
Monica: Another conspiracy.
Brandon: Another potential conspiracy.
Monica: But yeah. I mean, all these people would have reason to keep from having the case to go further, because they wouldn't want the evidence to come out. They wouldn't want it to go to trial. They wouldn't want him to snitch and say, X, Y, and Z were involved, or whatever. There are so many avenues that could've resulted of him being in custody that could really damage other people's involvement and their reputation. And if that's what they're — obviously, there could be more information that just hasn't come to light that I don't even know about, you know, 'cause ignorance is bliss.
Brandon: To an extent.
Monica: Yeah. I mean, I feel like I wish I knew less about all this shit.
Brandon: I know, I know. The more I find out, I'm like, oh, my God. This is really, really, really scary.
Brandon: And we can talk about the other conspiracy theories that, beyond this just being sex trafficking that we are aware of, where it was, you know, women and children being recruited and being sent to him, and given amongst his friends, and things like that. We also look at the theories that are coming up about this being even more obscene. The theories that there are coded language in a lot of these emails that center on things like pizza and jerky, and —
Monica: Yeah. Cream cheese.
Brandon: Different things that are apparently related to not only trafficking —
Monica: In kids.
Brandon: But that they were eating people. That jerky, potentially, is for human, and that they were talking about him eating — his obsession with jerky, which, if you look through the files, beef jerky and jerky of all different kinds comes up, like, incessantly. There are people out there that are saying that is related to the consumption of other humans, that people were eating other humans, that people were killing children and eating them.
Monica: Because of the way they were talking about it. The way that they were coding it in the emails. It was like, please, like, thank you so much for the delivery. It was — thank you for the pizza delivery, it was delicious. Like, this isn't word-for-word, but it was, like, how it was written.
Brandon: Right. And it's very clear that they're talking about the illegal activity. But what specifically is not necessarily clear. They're very clearly insinuating — they're not emailing each other about fucking pizza.
Monica: Right.
Brandon: But this opens up a whole other can of worms, because if you remember, the Podesta emails that came out years ago, and Pizzagate with Hillary Clinton, where there was apparently a pizza shop that was being run by Hillary Clinton and Podesta that was trafficking children out of it. And people were like — this became this huge conspiracy theory on the internet, and it led to some guy actually going to a pizza shop outside of DC and, like, shooting up the pizza shop because of these online conspiracies that this was involved with human trafficking.
Monica: Oh, my gosh.
Brandon: Well, now you see this pizza language being used in all of these emails, and now it starts to corroborate parts of that, what everybody thought was a crazy conspiracy. Now these messages, why are they using the same types of coded language? Coded language that people have said for years references children being trafficked, children being eaten.
Monica: Farmed and eaten.
Brandon: Right, all of these things.
Monica: And there's other evidence that supports that. There's videos of a model from Mexico that — I don't know if you've seen this video, where she was, like, screaming to a bunch of press people that they were eating humans. Like, and she's going on and on and on, and she's nowhere to be heard from again.
Brandon: There's people that have come out and said that's what was going on, that this was, like, Satanic cult-level shit that was happening, and now you see all of these emails with language that supports those theories.
Monica: Yeah. Things aren't so far-fetched anymore. And it's starting to feel like everything is connected.
Brandon: The most far-fetched things are seemingly not — tied to Epstein somehow. Correct.
Monica: And it's crazy to think that all of this shit that we're talking about — like, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, when they were running against each other in 2016, involved in the same fucking shit. Like, what?
Brandon: And you know the truth of the matter is if either one of them were as implicitly — if there was the real dirt on either one of them, 'cause there isn't — if there was real dirt on either one of them, they would've used it at that time.
Monica: Unless — you think she wouldn't have done anything she could to prevent him from becoming president, or him do anything — unless it would further expose them of being —
Brandon: Well, it would.
Monica: Because no matter what, they're all still involved. So, if Hillary tries to use the Epstein shit against Trump, it's a double-edged sword, and potentially vice versa.
Brandon: Exactly. And I think that they know better. I think they know better. Maybe.
Monica: Maybe.
Brandon: And you know what? We don't know much, because right now, Hillary and Bill are being interviewed. And they're taking depositions. Hillary, the day that we're filming this, Hillary was being deposed today, and her statement was that she does not ever remember meeting Jeffrey Epstein at all, is what her statement was.
Monica: I didn't see that.
Brandon: Yeah, and then a picture of the deposition came out, like a picture from today of her being deposed came out, and they shut down the deposition because somebody leaked a picture of the deposition happening. So, that has been since shut down, and I don't know what is gonna be the outcome of that.
Monica: Probably gonna have to go into litigation. Who knows?
Brandon: Who knows? But the ties that this scandal has touched — unfortunately, no pun intended, it's touched everybody and every political affiliation, religious group, nationality. People of all walks of life are impacted by this, and involved to some extent. There's people at the highest levels of the governments that run the most important countries in the world are involved. And there's evidence supporting the claims against all these people.
Monica: Yeah. And the more that people dig, the more you're seeing more connections.
Brandon: We're gonna find out. We're gonna keep finding out more stuff.
Monica: Yeah. Like, this is definitely not the end of Epstein files.
Brandon: No.
Monica: There's definitely more to come. Like, this is not even — and the truth is, the rich and powerful, they protect each other. And they're still gonna do everything they can to protect each other.
Brandon: Yeah. The information that comes out, comes out very slowly. Like, it's not all —
Monica: Well, not only that, it's literally a bunch of files that you would have to, like, you yourself sift through and make the connection yourself. It's like when we get discovery. We have to figure out how the state's gonna put their case. They're not gonna tell us.
Brandon: Right.
Monica: And sometimes, discovery is hundreds of pages. In this situation, it's literally three and a half million files.
Brandon: Million.
Monica: Right. So it's just like, take that and multiply it, and then — but also, give it to the world and let all of the personal investigators — the different social media investigators — give it to them to try to figure out and put a spin on it. Literally.
Monica: Oh, this is what I — not me. Episode one, I had a brain fart, and I now just remembered what I wanted to say. But it was 'cause you said social media investigators. But it's the fact that this man had so many private investigators working for him, because we were talking about the storage units, and he hired a bunch of private investigators working for him. That shit is sketchy.
Brandon: Well, that's another big conspiracy.
Monica: That in itself. Exactly. But a lot of those private investigators were hired through or in conjunction with the criminal attorneys that he was hiring.
Brandon: His attorneys.
Monica: Exactly. Which — I mean, they're not necessarily completely innocent either. I mean, his attorneys were also accused of being involved or complicit in his —
Brandon: Multiple attorneys are accused of being complicit, or not necessarily complicit, or at least helping hide information.
Monica: Correct. That they knew things.
Brandon: Right.
Monica: If we know our clients are about to commit a crime, that's not necessarily privilege.
Brandon: Well, how about if you know your client's gonna be served with a search warrant and you direct that all of the house get cleaned out for him?
Monica: My ass is on the line. Are you kidding? And the fact that they're — those lawyers are still — I mean, I'm not saying, like, it's just crazy, because that would never fly with us. We would probably —
Brandon: Some of those lawyers are dead now.
Monica: Yeah. Not mysteriously —
Brandon: Not actually practicing.
Monica: Yeah, you're saying they're not actually practicing 'til now, is what you're saying.
Brandon: Well, no, I literally mean, like, Roy Black is dead. Roy Black is very heavily involved with knowing —
Monica: I mean, his shit is all everywhere.
Brandon: There's things that are saying that he directed evidence to be either hidden or —
Monica: He could be in possession of the child porn.
Brandon: Potentially, he could be in possession of the hard drives and the other evidence that could really be used to prosecute other people.
Monica: Yeah, and covered under the name of attorney-client privilege.
Brandon: A lot of it.
Monica: A lot of it, yeah. Which is crazy.
Brandon: So, anyways, the truth is that there are certain conspiracies that have kind of been debunked, right? So I'll give you an example of one. There was this theory that Jeffrey Epstein had a bank account that was named Baal, B-A-A-L, which is some demonic, mythological type of Satanic creature or whatever the fuck. And there was a whole theory that he had a bank account that was named after this guy, and, oh my God, how would he be so obvious and so blatant? People did a little bit more investigating, and the paperwork that said Baal on it, it was misprinted, and it should've said balance. And it was the balance amount for that account, and it was not, like, an account named after some devil creature.
Monica: That's so dumb.
Brandon: Yeah. So, like, there are certain theories that will get debunked, and I think the more that people are able to research and find out, certain things will be debunked. Whether or not they were consuming humans and other things, like, I don't think that is ever gonna be debunked.
Monica: Yeah. How are we gonna — unless we —
Brandon: We don't know.
Monica: We will never know.
Brandon: Yeah. And it's really crazy, because, like, if the term jerky really does mean human meat, there are emails where they're talking about jerky and jerky recipes, and they talk about a restaurant called Cannibal. Some of this shit is so fucking obvious that it's just hard to overlook. And all of the things that we're talking about, like, if you go into the records and you just do a search of these words, you'll find all of this stuff.
Monica: Yeah.
Brandon: It can all be looked at and disclosed, and some of the files themselves that people think you can't see — if you search in the Epstein files, if you search image not processed, and you find hundreds and hundreds of pages of things that are image not processed, well, if you just change the letters at the end of the hyperlink from dot-pdf to dot-mov or dot-mp4, and you play around with it a little bit, a lot of these files that are supposedly hidden are not hidden, and you can see videos. You can see pictures. You can see certain things that are supposed to be, quote-unquote, hidden.
Monica: Because they're sharing the actual file.
Brandon: Exactly right. Computer nerds can figure it out.
Monica: Like, maybe not me and you.
Brandon: And they are.
Monica: No, but somebody else can do it.
Brandon: But somebody else is figuring it out, and we're getting the information that it's now been figured out. And it just opens up new levels of conspiracy theories and rabbit holes that people go down.
Monica: I was like, oh, that's a new thing I haven't heard. Well, wormholes is that space, so we're — I'm, you know. We're not too far off from science fiction with some of this stuff.
Brandon: Yeah. So it's like any of this can be tied together. It's wild.
Monica: There's definitely gonna be more to come with at least the new arrests that came out in the UK, like, that just happened, so we don't know how that's gonna uncover and unfold, and there's more gonna come from that. So, like, there is just so much that's still developing right now that it's still going to be, like, a hot topic, and I think that this is something we should definitely stay on top of and continue discussing, because it's definitely very relevant.
Brandon: Yeah, and I don't think this shit didn't end.
Monica: No, no.
Brandon: Like, this is still going on.
Monica: That's what I'm saying.
Brandon: And there are still people that are doing these things, and there are still people that are trafficking humans. Like, this is all still going on. And the fact that Epstein the asset is no longer in play doesn't mean that these other countries don't have other assets that are in play, and that there's other rings of pedophiles and that there's other rings of child trafficking.
Monica: Especially if we're talking about, like, this — the Satanic ring that we're talking about, it's probably something that stemmed from what he got from Maxwell that ultimately he adopted, in terms of ideology or whatever. You know what I mean? And that could've been something that, if he is a part of, that's still very well alive and going. Why would it die because Epstein is gone or out of the picture?
Brandon: Right.
Monica: There's definitely, like, even outside of Epstein, there's so much more involved that we don't know about and that we probably will never know about. But in terms of right now, in terms of, like, Epstein, I think there is still — even though we're saying we're not gonna know everything, I think there is gonna be so much more that's gonna come out in the next few months, in the next year, even two years. 'Cause people are still processing all these documents and reviewing all these documents.
Brandon: I mean, there's new videos that come out weekly about things, but what is important, aside from the documents that come out, is what is happening globally. What are the ramifications? People being arrested, people being taken out of powerful positions, and their reputations coming to light. You know, we've talked about all of these different people. All these people that are involved, all their reputations are — it's all coming to light that they had connections or they were involved, and a lot of the people that said, oh, I had nothing to do with him, or I was never involved with him, now you see all this shit and all these emails, it's like, you were lying.
Monica: And the fact that you're stepping down. If you were really innocent, I would, listen, I'm standing right freaking here, I'm not going nowhere. I'm standing in my position, I didn't do anything wrong. Like, I would not step down just because there are, like, allegations that are not true. If I was so confident that it was not true, I'm staying right here.
Brandon: But, you also have to think, like, Goldman Sachs doesn't want this hanging over their head from the company's perspective.
Monica: Like, the companies that have hired — that's different, yeah.
Brandon: DP Global doesn't want this hanging over their head and fucking with their contracts and messing with people that are willing to do business with them. These companies are too big to do that.
Monica: Yeah. It's like, well, yeah, from the company's position, for sure. But from, I don't know, just like the, like Harvard, the guy from Harvard. Like, things like that, it's like I just, I'm like, okay, just because, like, if that was really, if you're really so innocent and have no personal relationship and you're strictly professional, what's the issue? So I just, there's, I just have some —
Brandon: I don't know, the connections — all the connections are so deep. Like, you look at one of the things that I found really interesting was Ghislaine Maxwell, so she tries to, after Epstein gets in trouble the first time, she tries to distance herself and tries to come up with a foundation, Terramar. Do you know about this? Terramar?
Monica: She tried to come up with, like, this foundation to, like, save the oceans, and she was a big time philanthropist, she did a fucking TED Talk, she was all over.
Brandon: Terramar is funded by the Clinton Initiative. So, again, that connection — that the Clintons basically paid for this thing, Terramar, and Terramar is also known to having a very young internship program where Ghislaine Maxwell, who's at the head of that, is again continuing with her ability to run a ring.
Monica: Whatever show she's running. Yeah. She's just like, oh, I don't need you anymore. You're in trouble, goodbye. I can't be caught with you.
Brandon: They were also trying to come up with a way to give people these citizenship of the ocean type of passports, so that you were basically, like, a citizen of the ocean — so that way, oh, what you do on the ocean, you can't be held accountable for type of shit. And, like, there's all of this web of whatever they do, whatever activities they're involved in, there's always a nefarious element to it. And that project, which is like, oh, save the oceans, type of shit. Like, you should see — she gave a TED Talk where she's talking, like, she's, like, talking through her —
Monica: How she's a philanthropist and doing — oh, like — such good work, doing God's work. Saving the fucking world.
Brandon: Yeah. And in reality, she's just trafficking kids and has been a prolific human trafficker her whole life, and her whole career.
Monica: Literally.
Brandon: Now, this is before she gets in trouble and she gets taken down.
Monica: Of course, yeah.
Brandon: But let's turn to her. I saw the videos of the deposition that she allegedly gave recently where she basically pleads the Fifth the entire time. That certainly doesn't look like any other videos I've ever seen of her before.
Monica: No.
Brandon: And if you put her picture side by side and you start doing facial measurements and measurements of her teeth and her nose and her chin, none of that shit matches up with her.
Monica: Yeah, not the same person.
Brandon: So who's to say that when she was transferred — because she was moved, she was put in a different facility — who's to say when she was transferred to a different facility, she didn't get the same body swap treatment and she's out and about and doing her own thing?
Monica: Exactly. You know? Or even other things that we wouldn't know about, because the spotlight really wasn't on Maxwell as much as it was on Epstein.
Brandon: Right, until he's dead. Then they put — they try to, like —
Monica: Exactly. Bury her.
Brandon: And, you know, one of the good things about the Maxwell prosecution was it really allowed for a lot of the victims to have their day in court. It allowed for a bunch of different victims to testify in court and confront their accuser and get some sort of result from that. Those people were never able to confront Jeffrey Epstein in court, for various reasons. In the early case, because the government made everything hush-hush —
Monica: Dropped the ball.
Brandon: Dropped the ball, and Palm Beach rushed to close the case. In the new case, he's dead, so that case didn't continue. But the judge in the 2019 case, when the motion to dismiss the charges against him was filed because he was dead, that judge still allowed victims to come in and have their day in court.
Monica: Well, they should, under the —
Brandon: And they should all be — yes. Exactly right. Under the victim's —
Monica: They all should be given their day in court. Yes. Absolutely. And I mean, as, I know we're defense attorneys, but the law still stands. So that's — they should.
Brandon: We're defense attorneys, but, like, we don't stand for the premise of —
Monica: Yeah, human trafficking, yeah.
Brandon: Fucking human trafficking, and like — those are victims —
Monica: I'm just saying, 'cause I'm not necessarily saying every victim should always have their day in court. But I'm saying, under that law of having to, like the federal law, the right to be heard and the right to be notified, even with a motion to dismiss, I do believe that victims should be in court being able to be heard, even if this person's dead, and it will result in a dismissal. You know what I mean? Like, we all know what's gonna happen, but still, they deserve that, you know?
Brandon: Yeah. I completely agree with you, and I think that one of the things that the defense attorneys in the Maxwell case tried to do when they were cross-examining these —
Monica: Victims.
Brandon: Was try to assert — they attacked their credibility, they victim shamed them, they tried to say, oh, you got all this money from Epstein's estate, 'cause some of them did wind up getting money from Epstein's estate, and tried to attack their credibility. And the difference between that trial and the grand jury that happened in the early 2000s in Palm Beach, is you can attack the credibility of one witness. But when you have multiple witnesses, all saying the same thing, all saying the same type of conduct occurred, all making the allegations that are the same, regardless of the background that they had and their own personal circumstances, it is very clear that that is what happened. That that conduct did happen.
Monica: It's — there was no way for her lawyers to attack the credibility of these victims enough that it made it seem like this stuff didn't happen.
Brandon: Yeah. And, because it did. It did, and it's been documented by hundreds and hundreds of victims that we know of — hundreds of victims that we know of — that this is exactly the type of conduct that happened. She was very much the ringleader behind a lot of the human trafficking, and the prostitution, and procuring these women for Epstein and for his friends and pals, and like, Maxwell was very, very involved. And is as culpable, if not more than Epstein, because she put a lot of these people in. She fed the monster.
Monica: The fact that she's serving a 20-year sentence, I'm like, hmm, interesting. That's crazy. Is she serving a 20-year sentence?
Brandon: Well, whatever, you know.
Monica: That's another conspiracy. Is she in custody or not?
Brandon: No, unfortunately the video that we saw recently that made it look like she was in Canada turned out to be a fake.
Monica: I was like, she's in Canada. That video was, like, really good AI.
Brandon: Yeah.
Monica: That's the other thing, AI kind of is fucking with things right now.
Brandon: Well, yeah, that adds —
Monica: That's, like, a layer of — yeah, all of this is a conspiracy.
Brandon: Right.
Monica: It completely adds to it.
Brandon: But there's, you know, it's a lot, and ultimately, the question is whether or not these co-conspirators or other guilty people are gonna be held accountable, and whether or not there's evidence out there to get them, and I think there's more investigating that should be done, and I think the evidence to go after more people is out there.
Monica: 100%.
Brandon: It's just a matter of getting that evidence and wanting to prosecute those people.
Monica: Yeah, they're not.
Brandon: There's no incentive. And this is not just a shot at this DOJ. This is a shot at the DOJ for the last 20-plus, 30 years not doing anything about it. And protecting people at the top, and potentially protecting one of their own, because if Epstein was working for the CIA, they're protecting one of their own. Not just one, but many.
Monica: Right, right. Yeah, exactly.
Brandon: So, you know, the idea that he was some sort of asset — I think there's so much evidence that supports that.
Monica: Oh, yeah.
Brandon: That he was working for some government under some capacity.
Monica: I mean, even just the deal he did with Catherine Ruemmler. With the DOJ. To help the Rothschild Bank. Like, even that's a public — and think about that.
Brandon: That in itself is a conspiracy. Rothschild, the bank in Europe, the Rothschild family members that are still alive and around, a lot of them had interactions with Epstein. And he was handling money for a lot of them, and those are some of the richest people in the world.
Monica: I mean, they were insider trading. They're the biggest bank in Europe.
Brandon: They were.
Monica: Exactly. The European banks, like, they run the majority of the money through Europe. He was at the top of them, and they were his client.
Brandon: And their clients.
Monica: Yeah, exactly. That's my point.
Brandon: And their clients were the wealthiest people.
Monica: Still are.
Brandon: Yeah. Bank's still in business.
Monica: They still are the wealthiest people. And, like, the connection between the Rothschilds — there's so much money there that that's enough to say what is a reason to either kill him or keep him alive or whatever. Just that faction alone is enough of a thing that sparks a big conspiracy.
Brandon: Oh, my God. Yeah. It's wild, and it just gets — the more that you look into it, the more that it gets deeper and deeper. And it gets crazier and crazier the further you go.
Brandon: But the truth is, look, everybody out there needs to do — you do your own research. Do your own homework. Don't just believe what you're being fed by anybody or anything. Because things are not what they seem. One of the things that we talked about earlier in this series is the ability to have so much power and have so much money, not only the control is also of the narrative. And if you can control the media and you control social media or the news or the certain technology that we all absorb, you can control what is being fed to everybody and what is being told. So, the stories that don't come out don't come out for a reason. They're being stopped.
Brandon: You know, there were other people that investigated Epstein in years past. There were magazines that tried to do stories on him. And that fell apart. There were other people that tried to say what he was doing for years, and it didn't manifest in anything. And that's because the most powerful people control the narrative. They can control what the message is to the globe. So, that means whether it's the mainstream media or what they're feeding you or what you're hearing from an investigator on Instagram, like, you need to verify to the best of your ability what information you're absorbing, because just because it's coming from a news outlet doesn't necessarily mean it's true anymore. We are in a day and age where it's like, be very careful what information you trust. You have to do your own homework, and be careful with the sources that you rely on.
Monica: Yeah, I mean, in the interests of truth-seeking, I don't know how much of the truth we'll actually get ever, because I really think that based off what you're saying it's really making me feel like we really don't know what we think we know and what we think we know could be —
Brandon: We are the sheep.
Monica: Yeah, literally. We're being fed by all the information that we get. Like, we don't know. A long, years ago, people would read the newspaper or watch the news on TV and be like, oh, they're telling me this, it's gotta be true. That's not the case anymore.
Brandon: Right. We've seen over the past 10 years that that's not the case anymore. Like, things are very different. What you see on the news oftentimes is just biased product of what the people that own the news want you to see.
Monica: Or are being paid by whoever is — that's what I'm talking about.
Brandon: Yeah. It's the narrative they want out there.
Monica: Right. Versus what the actual truth is.
Brandon: And it gets a lot harder to figure out what the truth is, ultimately. But that's why you do your own homework, you connect the dots that are actually there, and you can start to see, based on the things that are out there, that a lot of the, quote-unquote, conspiracies, really are not that far-fetched.
Monica: No.
Brandon: And there's evidence to support a lot of the things that we are learning about every day in this case.
Monica: Yeah. Oh my God. So crazy.
Brandon: It is, it is crazy.
Wrap-Up
Monica: Well, that was a really good wrap-up, I feel. If you liked listening to this episode, we will definitely be doing more Epstein updates, so make sure you stay tuned. Make sure you like, comment and subscribe. We are on all platforms, comebackwithawarrant.pod. Subscribe to our newsletter, give us a 5-star review, and check out our merch online. And if you didn't like listening to us —
Brandon: Come back with a warrant.