Come Back With a Warrant
Episode 40: How to Build a Referral-Based Business in South Florida (Networking Secrets That Work)
Hosted by Brandon Dinetz and Monica Ishak
Intro
Brandon: Welcome back to Come Back With a Warrant podcast. I'm Brandon Dinetz.
Monica: And I'm Monica Ishak.
Monica: Before we kick-start this week's episode, this is your reminder that this podcast is not legal advice. It's real, unfiltered, and for entertainment purposes only. If you need to speak with a lawyer, call one. Or better yet, call us.
Brandon: Call us.
Episode
Monica: Welcome back. Today, we are talking about networking and connecting in order to make a bigger impact and also make more money, 'cause that's why we network.
Brandon: That is part of why we network, for sure.
Monica: Yeah.
Brandon: But building those relationships and building your own brand and credibility — ultimately, yeah, the long-term goal is to develop relationships that turn into —
Monica: Collaboration, really.
Brandon: Right, and turn into money. That ultimately turn into referrals or future business or relationships that can do something that leads to our growth.
Monica: Yeah. Exactly. And so honestly, I'm very excited to talk about this topic, 'cause I love networking. I am big on networking. I set myself monthly networking goals, which is kind of ridiculous.
Brandon: That's kinda cool.
Monica: I do it to keep me accountable because it's so easy to get caught up in your day-to-day routine, and I can easily prioritize, like, fitness over networking 'cause that's what I would want to do, but if I have a networking event to attend, then I have to reorganize my day and make sure I prioritize attending that event. So if I don't set myself a networking goal for the month, I'm not gonna end up doing that, so I have to do it.
Brandon: Whereas I am terrible with networking and I don't do it.
Monica: You also have different responsibilities than I do.
Brandon: I know, but I — my wife has the same responsibilities that I do, and she's an expert networker.
Monica: Yeah. But she also started networking before we had a son, so she has been building her personal brand for a long time. And that is, like, a big part of what we need to talk about today, 'cause I actually did not have that journey, and I think Jen is really, like, wise to have started early or younger. I didn't know the importance of networking in general. In the legal field, we've talked about this. We've said that everybody knows everybody. It is a big community, but it's really a small community. That's a part of the reason why you need to network, but we also aren't really taught in school, I think, because I do believe if I wasn't a lawyer, I'd probably be networking even if I was in another career.
Brandon: I mean, talent alone doesn't build the firm. The relationships that you develop along the way, that is what really builds you up and builds that growth. You have to get your name out there and be on people's minds so that they will refer cases to you or will send people your way. For you to grow and also to learn, you need to develop these different relationships with people. It's really important. And you're not just networking with the people that are in your specific field, right? You're not just networking with other criminal defense attorneys. That's important too. But you're networking across the legal landscape and across the professional landscape because you want to start branching out. Maybe you're in an organization where someone else is a manager of a bank. The bottom line is there are all different types of people out there that we can interact with that eventually we may need to use their services or they may need to use ours, and it's very important to have those relationships in order to grow.
Monica: Yeah. Well, the beautiful thing about networking is that once you connect to one person, you're really connecting with their entire community. So let's say you go to a networking event. I'm not good at math, so I might mess this up. But you go and you meet, let's say, five people. You exchange business cards. You follow up with two people, and you have a lunch with these people, and then you start connecting with this person, whether it's at happy hours or lunches or coffee meets, whatever it is, and you send them a case. They send you a case. And oftentimes when you're connecting with other professionals or you're at a networking event, you're not really meeting your ideal client, like you're saying, but you could end up collaborating in different ways. Or this person might end up having — you don't even know who in their life gets into some trouble, in our situation. It could be a DUI.
Monica: This is what I say a lot — oftentimes I give my card and people are like, I don't want it. I'm like, just take my card. Just take it. Because it happens so often that I get a call from someone that I met. It's not about you or your immediate people, but somebody calls you because they know that you are connected to professionals or they know you're a professional, and they're gonna call you and ask you if you know somebody, and I'm gonna be the person that's gonna be top of mind because you just met me or because we're connected. I've experienced the fruits of networking myself. So because of that, I am referral-based only, and I don't pay for lead sources. When I have downtime in my business, if I'm not revamping something in the business in terms of a system or operation, I'm networking. And that's why I set myself networking goals 'cause sometimes I get busy with cases. I'm focusing on my fitness goals or whatever the case is, and it's easy to let it go by the wayside, and I've been there, so that's why I have to make it a priority. But, if not that, then you're supporting another business, which is also a really great thing 'cause you're getting something out of it.
Brandon: Right. One of the reasons why our personal collaboration works so well is the ability that we have to tap into each other's communities or networking groups. One of the reasons why I reached out to you initially to start all of this was because I saw the success that you were having in places like LinkedIn and social media. And seeing that growth, I wanted to figure out how to tap into that growth for myself and also learn how to expand my network. And that alone, just LinkedIn for an example — being able to, you know, both of us will be on a post together, and you'll see the people that'll comment on that post, and then I'll see those people will now follow me on LinkedIn, or they'll be added to my group. And then those people are commenting on my posts. And you see the different expansion of your own networking group just based on the relationship that we're building. I have access, and I'm interacting with all of these different people.
Brandon: And one of the things about us is we sometimes get calls that are not related to criminal defense, and we have to be the ones that refer them out. So for us to have relationships with other lawyers is so important because I wanna be able to refer somebody out —
Monica: To a good lawyer.
Brandon: Right. Know they're gonna be a good lawyer, know that they have credibility, know that they can get the job done. Even if I don't know the person that's asking me for that referral, I wanna give them the best because it's still a representation and reflection on me that I gave them that person, and I also want them to have the best possible chance at success for whatever they're doing. So knowing all these different lawyers in different fields becomes so important.
Monica: Well, I think that's also important. It emphasizes the importance of actually connecting with attorneys and getting to know people genuinely, not on a superficial level. Like, I think initially it is superficial, right? Like, you're meeting each other over drinks or whatever.
Brandon: Small talk.
Monica: Yeah. And then you get to know each other, and then you're like, okay, let's finish this off at lunch or whatever and continue to get to know each other. How are you going to ever know if this is a decent attorney that is responsive? Like, if you don't actually interact with this person, or if you don't know how you can deal with this person. Client-facing is probably a little bit different than networking and how they actually communicate with you. But overall, if this person is responsive, you know that this person's probably on top of their work. You see how they interact with other professionals within their actual industry. I think all of those things, you're gathering data, and you're seeing, is this someone I want to network and then eventually collaborate with?
Brandon: Right. Yeah. That's the goal.
Monica: So I think it's a matter of elevating together, too. You know?
Brandon: Yeah, that's true. I try to keep a network of people that are either — a lot of times I try to look for people that are within the same age group that I'm in or within the same stage in their career that I'm in because I want everyone to come up together. I want everybody to elevate and grow and be at the next level, so that whenever I need to refer a family law case or an immigration case or a civil case, I know the people to call, and I can just as easily send them a case as I can pick up the phone and say, let's grab a drink or let's go grab lunch. And genuinely, I'm doing it because I care.
Brandon: And then I have the faith in that person that I can send them a referral or a person that needs help. And sometimes it's former clients of mine, and I care what type of service these people get. So I'm not sending them to just the next family attorney that I met at an event. I'm sending them to somebody that I've developed some sort of relationship with or that, you know, through my family, there's a relationship with.
Monica: Yeah. I think at first, when I first started networking, I didn't really know where it would lead to, and I was kinda worried 'cause I was like, what is this — where is this going to take me? You know what I mean? Or, where is this going to take this relationship? And at first, I didn't know how to network. I didn't network really before in the sense of, like, we're growing together. And I was joking in the beginning saying, like, we're making a lot of money. But I'm joking, but not. Because the reason why I say that is because I find that in the beginning, I was kind of blindly sending people, like what you're saying. I didn't really know if they were good people to send 'cause I didn't really have a network myself. I didn't have my own community of people I could send.
Monica: And over time, I've gathered data, obviously, and gotten better at networking and actually connected with people and, like, genuinely understood who these people are and what type of lawyers they are. And the power of saying someone's name or giving someone's information out — I took it lightly, and it showed because I wasn't really evaluating kind of, like, who this person is and if I should be referring this person. Versus now, vice versa, whether someone says my name or if I'm saying someone else's name for potential business, I do not take that lightly. Like, that is such a big deal that you would refer any — like, even if it's a former client, or obviously we're talking networking purposes, like other professionals or other people that you may be even just talking to at the bar. You know what I mean? Like, if you're just hanging out with — I always have, like, business cards on me, even if I'm casually out with my friends, just in case. Like, you never know. Because I end up having these conversations with people that end up developing, and then I'm, like, organically networking with people, because networking really is just connecting with people.
Brandon: Right.
Monica: And so I just look kind of in hindsight — I've been networking now, I would say, probably, like, three years. I just recently started networking considering how long I've been in practice. People start networking before even becoming barred, which we'll talk about. But the sooner you network, the better advantage you have to everything. Like, you start to get to know — there are people that become barred knowing judges because of their networking. That is a huge advantage. Walking in the courtroom without feeling intimidated or like you don't know anybody, or that your word holds weight just because you already know this individual. That's another really great aspect of networking, especially in the legal profession, where you gain credibility. You gain credibility just by being you, you know what I mean? Like, showing up to court and actually being able to have a conversation with the judge outside of court can then translate when you're in the courtroom. Just maybe not everything you say is taken as Bible, but it means something.
Brandon: Yeah. No, that's for sure. And being able to network specifically with judges is so — the first few times that I went to networking events and there were judges, I was, like, super intimidated. I had that seeing your teacher out of school feeling. I was like, oh —
Monica: You're like — yeah, I was like, oh, no. Don't look at me.
Brandon: Like, but I mean, now it's so — it's so nice.
Monica: It's such a pleasure.
Brandon: Yeah. And they are regular people. And you get to know them outside, and you get to know a little bit about them and their family life, and they know about you and your family life. The networking that you could do with court officials, you can't beat that.
Brandon: There's networking events that I'll go to, and judicial assistants are at them. And clerks are there. And it's like those relationships that you can build with the people that are really the gatekeepers of the court —
Monica: That is huge.
Brandon: And it does everything from helping you get on a docket if you need to, or helping you with —
Monica: Get an order signed.
Brandon: Correct.
Monica: Getting anything, getting things done, knowing those people.
Brandon: Are on your side. Right. And you build those relationships over time. A lot of the people that I have gotten to know outside of the courtroom, I didn't network with initially, so they got to know me through —
Monica: This is, like, working in the system, yeah.
Brandon: Inside the courtroom. And for them, when I first switched from being a prosecutor to a defense attorney, there was a lot of people that I would meet, and they would be like, oh, wow, you're, like, much different. You're much more different outside of the courtroom than you are in the courtroom. Like, I always thought you were, like, much more stoic and serious, like that's how you are in court. And I'm like —
Monica: You're like, not serious at all.
Brandon: Nah, get the fuck out of here. That's not how I am.
Monica: You're like, am I serious?
Brandon: I try to be serious when I need to be, but I'm not — that's just not how I am. I'm much more approachable in real life than I am —
Monica: 100%.
Brandon: In court.
Types of Networking & LinkedIn
Brandon: Something that's, you know, the different types of networking and the different groups and organizations. First, talking about the types — you have the face-to-face interactions and the networking groups, but you have the social media networking that's so big also. And specifically, I think of LinkedIn for lawyers. The amount of people that you can be interacting with and get into their networks and expand, I think that's such a big area of potential that not enough people probably execute on, is that social media networking for purposes of building your professional network. When you're networking on LinkedIn, you're not networking towards the people that are potential clients. You're networking towards the people that are potential referrals, and it's a different type of networking. And you gain credibility through the other people that you already know.
Monica: 100%.
Brandon: So like with you and I, there are so many people that are regular commenters on your different posts that now I see all in my pages.
Monica: That's awesome.
Brandon: Yeah. And you know that you're just growing a —
Monica: Community.
Brandon: Correct. Your own community.
Monica: Correct. And it's like your own online community, and it's exposure. It's all about exposure. Online, it's about exposure, but also in person. Speaking to what you're saying, like, even with people who — 'cause we work with the same LinkedIn people that help us develop our brand on LinkedIn — and this individual, his name is Jacob, he's awesome.
Brandon: Yeah, Jacob's awesome.
Monica: He connected me with another criminal defense attorney who is in a different state, multiple others, where I was able to go live and collaborate with these attorneys. And these people have been in practice much longer than I have, in legal practice and in their own firm practice. And so being able to connect with these people and ask them questions on the live and give them exposure to my community, and vice versa, is so cool, because we already all are kind of doing the same thing, right? Like, we're all on the same mission. Some of them are former public defenders. We have some things in common, but they also have a few extra years on me. So the people that are already on my page interested in things I'm saying are people that are going to be interested in things that they have to say, and vice versa. So it's really cool to be able to collaborate and come together. Like, maybe I can't send them a case, 'cause I don't know anybody there, and they can't send me a case. But this is a way where we can collaborate. Networking has led to collaboration, where we were able to then expose each other to more people, new, bigger communities, different people. Like, it doesn't always have to come back in money. That's the other thing — I, in the beginning, was thinking, like, how much money am I making off this networking event? Like, what is my ROI? My return on my investment. And it's like, you know, you have to pay for some of these networking events, most of them. And so, aside from connecting with those people that I meet for lunches and coffee meets, I'm going to networking events to connect with people and get exposure, and then see where that takes me in the future. But it doesn't always mean I'm gonna get a case out of it. It doesn't mean I'm gonna get money out of it, but it could mean that I'm gonna get connected to people that are in this person's community, and maybe that person is going to connect me with somebody who is then a potential referral. Like, you really don't know where it's going to take you. In my mind it's always, like, how are we able to elevate together? Like, how can I help you, how can you help me?
Brandon: Right.
Monica: That's how it is. It's not transactional in the sense of, let me send you a case, you send me a case. But it's like, I want you to win. It's a long-term goal. How can I continue to support you?
Brandon: Yeah. And there are a lot of people that'll reach out to me on LinkedIn, and just, you know, cold reach out. And they could be from all different types of organizations or professions. And, you know, I'll be honest, if a 65-year-old accountant and a 30-year-old accountant both reach out to me, and they're both talking to me about potentially working with them, I am inclined to look at the younger professional and say, okay, well, if I'm gonna make the choice to go and work with you, I wanna do it with somebody that is in my age bracket —
Monica: Similar, yeah.
Brandon: That I can elevate with. That's nothing bad about older professionals, but I want to grow with a certain class of professionals. I wanna grow with the people that are just starting their businesses, and that 20 years from now, when I look out and I look at the personal network I've built and the people that I refer cases to, they're all people that are like mine. And we grew together. And you develop relationships for long periods of time with these people. And, you know, sometimes the older professionals are only doing this for X amount more years and then they're done. Where are they gonna be in 20 years? Whereas some of the younger people, you can say, hey, 25 years from now you got somebody that, that same person's working on your finances or whatever the case may be.
Monica: Well, I think that comes down to connection too, because I think a lot of people are attracted to you at first look. Like, let's take it for LinkedIn — like, for what you look like, who you are, where you come from, your background. Just basic information you get from somebody viewing their LinkedIn profile or social media profile, it's very superficial. So obviously you're not gonna continue collaborating if you're not aligned. But just based off of the first look, you're like, okay, I like what I'm seeing. You know what I mean? And then it's — the reason why is because you have something in common. Like, you're connecting with this person, and then you realize that you connect on a deeper level or you are actually aligned. So I think it does come down to connection. And I think that's why I don't think it's a coincidence that LinkedIn says, like, connect, connect with this person. That's how you become friends with the person on LinkedIn.
Offline Networking & Bar Associations
Monica: But there are also offline ways, and specifically in the legal field, that you can network. A lot of this is great for new lawyers, young lawyers who are becoming prosecutors, PDs, or just wanna litigate, and that's in Palm Beach County specifically. And that's the Inns of Court, which I didn't participate in, but I think you did.
Brandon: I did. I was in it, but I also was in the Inns of Court right around the COVID time.
Monica: Mm.
Brandon: So I don't think I got the full —
Monica: Experience.
Brandon: Yeah. And it kind of may have tainted my experience a little bit 'cause it was more —
Monica: It was limited.
Brandon: Yeah. It just wasn't — I didn't get the full thing out of it. I could potentially give it another go at some point, but —
Merch Break
Brandon: Hi, everybody. This is Brandon Dinetz and Monica Ishak from Come Back With a Warrant Podcast. We are very excited to introduce some of our new merchandise for 2026.
Monica: We've got the cool crop top shirt with Come Back With a Warrant Podcast on the back. We have the brand-new all-black hoodie, Come Back With a Warrant. And we have our full shirts coming out on — I don't know what the fuck I was saying. Full shirts.
Brandon: Full shirts, meaning T-shirts.
Monica: And we have full shirts. Not cropped, non-cropped T-shirts. We have our non-cropped T-shirts dropping, and make sure you subscribe to our newsletter to stay tuned with all of our latest promotions and merch drops.
Brandon: And if you don't like our merch —
Monica: Come back with a warrant.
Episode (continued)
Brandon: I see the type of organizations like my wife is a part of, whether it's FAWL or whether it's PBCJA, the Palm Beach County Justice Association, which is civil plaintiffs attorneys. I see how when she was making the transition from the public sector to the private sector, she started off in those organizations right away, and now going into this year, years and years later, she's about to be the president of that organization.
Monica: That's awesome.
Brandon: And these are —
Monica: That's amazing.
Brandon: It's a very big deal. There's a lot of responsibility that she has. There's a lot of rubbing elbows with politicians and other people in the state that make big decisions for people in her field. And it all started with her networking and developing these relationships and then growing with this organization.
Monica: Yeah. Well, when you say FAWL and these organizations, Palm Beach County Justice Association — these are all bar associations, but there's also, like, the state bar committees that you can join that are niched in on whatever niche you like.
Brandon: Sure.
Monica: That's what's great is you can network on so many different levels. You can network within your industry. You can network within specific niches within your industry, and then you can network outside of your industry. And it helps you elevate in the sense of, if you wanna actually be a leader and be on the board and do these things — like, that's awesome. And so speaking of FAWL, I'm on one of the committee boards. I help plan the judicial reception for the year 'cause I was like, let me put my wedding planning skills to use here, 'cause I was — I think Jen had held that position also at some point.
Brandon: Yeah.
Monica: And apparently it's a big deal out of all the committees. Everybody keeps telling me. But no, it's great so far. But it has connected me with a lot of other great people who are also connected with people that are collaborating with me in the end. So it ends up being like a big circle of people. And when you end up going to other organizations just attending as an attendee, then you see some of the familiar faces, or you're then introduced to new people who they know at that networking event. So it's just, like, kind of, like, it branches out into all these little groups of people, and then you're like, oh, wow, we're all connected in a way. And that's how I realized the legal field really is not that big.
Brandon: No. And it's so important to reach out beyond your own — 'cause you can. We could just go to the Florida Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers events and call it a day and just stay in our own lane. But going to different types of organizations, I've been able to develop relationships with other PI lawyers, and they'll send me cases. Having friends in some of the bigger firms in Palm Beach County and getting to develop these relationships over time is a really big deal. In a space where referrals is so important — the majority of the business that I get is either from former clients or other lawyers. And that's all based on networking, word of mouth, and then the faith and trust that these other lawyers have that I'm gonna do the job the right way because I have done it the right way for the other clients that they've sent me. That's all about building credibility, and then when I have cases that fit their areas, that's who I send it to.
Monica: Yeah. Well, it's also figuring out what you're getting from each networking event you're going to or networking situation you're involved in. Because when you're saying FACDL, which is the Florida Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers — I mean, we can network in the sense of collaborating for trials. If they're in another jurisdiction, they can help us out and let us know, which is great. I'm not minimizing that.
Brandon: Right.
Monica: But it's also a really great place to learn. Where I get my knowledge and learning things and exchanging information is the criminal defense bar. But then when it's, like, bigger networking groups involving other attorneys, then I'm talking about referral-based relationships. There are different things you can get from everything, you know?
Brandon: Yeah, that's true.
Monica: And then obviously networking outside of your industry. Like, that's huge. I do that as much as I can. I do oftentimes network within the legal field, but I also am involved in Miss Esquire and others. Miss Esquire is still a legal community, but they have non-legal members. But it started as women lawyers. Like, other — Create and Cultivate, I know Entrepreneuse is, like, another one. There's a lot of really big companies that are known for networking and collaborating and bringing people together. And I've created relationships with people who have helped me grow my business in ways that, like, no case referral can. I have developed relationships with people who are able to help me make more money just because they have been running their own businesses for X amount of years. Helping me position myself going from, like, an operator to, like, an owner. And having certain mindsets that I didn't even know were things that I would face as an entrepreneur, because they have already experienced it. And so not only has networking helped me connect with the right people, but it's also given me really great mentors.
Brandon: Yeah, that's huge, and that's not something that is easy to access, especially when you're starting out a firm on your own.
Monica: Exactly.
Brandon: The Florida Bar is very good about giving you the —
Monica: Basics.
Brandon: Chart of how to start the firm. But, like, the mentorship you would get from another person basically telling you how to do it — no, that's stuff that you have to build over time. And I like to look to former bosses of mine at times for certain things like that — people that have done what I'm doing and have grown their firms to be successful, and people that I'm comfortable asking questions to that, even though they're in the same space, I can still go to them with certain questions, whether they're legal-based or business-based, and know that I'm getting an answer from someone that I've developed a relationship with, and they care about me, and they're not gonna steer me wrong.
Monica: Yeah, exactly. And not only that, like, honestly, I started networking — the first time I ever networked was outside of the legal industry. I think I felt more comfortable in the room, ironically, because when I got in the room, I had such an eye-opening experience that I was like — I spent so much money to get into this networking event, 'cause they have, like, higher tiered whatever, these companies I plugged into. So they introduced me to these people that I was like, I would have never otherwise met if I didn't choose to come in here. And so meeting that person changed the trajectory of my life. The reason I say that is because I actually went on this retreat associated with Create and Cultivate. It was while — I had put in my notice at the insurance company, but I didn't decide to open my own firm yet. So I was, like, in a lull period mentally. I went on this retreat, which was, like, the kickoff of, like, the networking thing that I signed up for, and it was, like, really a blueprint to get you ready to expand your business, grow your business. And I attended this retreat, and it literally helped me make the decision to start my firm. I wouldn't be going on closing on two years of business if it wasn't for that. In my mind right now, I'm like, this is just the beginning.
Brandon: Right.
Monica: But if it wasn't for my experience and choosing to put myself in an uncomfortable situation where I paid a shit ton of money to get into the room, and two, I had to go and — even though, mentally, the reason why I said ironically is 'cause, like, mentally I went in there, I was like, after I had met certain people, I was like, I don't feel like I belong here. I don't feel like I deserve to be here. I felt like I was surrounded by people who were way more advanced than me, which they were. Thank God it was a two-day retreat, 'cause the second day I went in, I went home crying the first day. I went in the second day and I was like, I am so blessed that I feel this way. I didn't realize how great of a thing it was that I was the youngest and most inexperienced person in that room. I took it hard the first day, but then I had to reframe it in my mind and go in with a different mindset.
Monica: But it was a networking thing, you know what I mean? And it's hard. People always talk to me, and they're like, oh, you're so good at networking. And, like, they hate it. They hate networking, and I get it. Like, I get that you're working all day and you don't wanna go and, like, have a drink at the bar with a bunch of strangers, right? And, like, have to do all the small talk.
Brandon: Wear a name tag and do the whole — yeah. It doesn't sound — I'm one of those people.
Monica: Yeah.
Brandon: I don't love networking.
Monica: Yeah. And so I think that it's — I had that mindset going into this retreat, but I also carry that mindset going into certain networking events, and whenever I find myself, like, really not feeling it, I just choose not to go sometimes, because I notice my energy, and I'm like, if I'm not feeling it or I'm not gonna maximize my time there, I'm not going to go. I'm just gonna go and, like, be sitting on the side talking to somebody I'm used to talking to. But I don't need to —
Brandon: It's kind of a waste.
Monica: Exactly. I don't need to go to the networking event. The whole point is exposure. Why would I go there to talk to the same person I always talk to?
Brandon: Yeah, that's a good point.
Monica: I can meet them for lunch, is my point. So I think that there's a lot more that goes into networking. It's great to talk about the fruits of networking, but also I think that takes some mental preparation for you to be able to actually go in and network and be able to create these relationships and maintain all these relationships.
Brandon: Yeah. That's true, and you have to be able to cultivate the relationships that you build there, and you also want to show up and put your best foot forward and give the best effort and be in the best mood that you possibly can. If you're already going into it with the wrong headspace, then you're not gonna get everything out of it that you possibly could.
Monica: Yeah. And you also don't want that to be the reputation, that you come to these events and you're the same person and, like, kind of mopey.
Brandon: Yeah.
Monica: Like, you don't want that.
Brandon: No. You wanna be like, oh, like, everybody knows Monica. She's very, like, you know, happy and X, Y, Z.
Monica: That's what you want.
Brandon: And has good energy. And is excited.
Monica: Right.
Brandon: That's the reputation you wanna build.
Monica: Correct. So you wanna show up that way.
Benefit to Clients
Brandon: The benefit to the clients is huge. Networking has a huge benefit to your clients, because you're gonna be able to give them better advocacy than you ordinarily would have. Whether it's something that's in your field or not, if you're able to refer it out and give it to somebody else that can handle it better in their field, you're giving them good representation. Or you're developing relationships within your own field that allow you to keep learning and stepping up, and now you're bringing something new to the case, some new knowledge that can benefit this specific client. There's a direct relation to networking and the positive impacts and betterment for your client.
Monica: Yeah, for sure. That goes back to what you were saying, going to your old bosses too. Being able to be connected to certain people in your industry that have already experienced this issue, and you can contact them. Like, you know who to call when you're facing an issue, or your client's facing an issue, or you need a second lawyer that is more experienced to help you handle the case, or whatever the case is.
Brandon: And it's not for everybody. The relationships, you don't network with every single person. There are certain collaborations that don't make sense, and we've said that before. If you run a traffic ticket type of practice, two traffic ticket practices are not going to be collaborating and networking together, because it just doesn't make any sense. But if you have a lawyer that runs a criminal practice that's, you know, all volume based, and you have a lawyer that is more of a specialist in federal cases or something like that, then you develop that relationship. If you have more of the volume practice, you're able to take the volume type cases from the federal attorney and send the federal cases to that other attorney, and develop a relationship, and expand what you do and what you market towards. You can market towards different areas of the law. You can market towards things that you're not so comfortable handling, but because you've developed people that you can send clients to, you're more comfortable with that.
Monica: Yeah. Well, there's also when you said cultivate the relationships — it reminded me, I did this LinkedIn Live interview with this attorney, one of the attorneys I was talking about that Jacob connected me with, and he was talking about how he loves lunches. And I interviewed him for an hour asking him about his lunches. And I found out his secret, because he's also referral based. He used to spend 30K in Google ads a year, and he does criminal defense in Utah, okay? So, 30K in ads.
Brandon: That's a lot.
Monica: That's a lot. South Florida, I'm like, yeah, 30K in ads in South Florida is really not that crazy. But in —
Brandon: I'm like, shit.
Monica: More rural place, that could be a lot. Yeah. And he switched, turned that off completely, switched to literally — reset his whole firm during COVID, and just started meeting with people for lunch. He does 10 lunches a month, I think he said, and that's how he cultivates his relationships, that's how he gets his clients, through continuous cultivation of relationships through lunches. And he has a family of, like, 10 or 11 kids or something like that.
Brandon: Well, Utah. That makes a little bit — it makes sense.
Monica: Well, I think they adopted kids. I don't know. I think there's more to that than what we may assume.
Brandon: I hope he's going on more than 10 lunches a month if he's supporting that big of a family. That's a big family.
Monica: Listen, I know. I can't imagine.
Brandon: I've got one. I can't imagine having 10.
Monica: I know. Well, that's why I mentioned it. 'Cause you're like, I have a kid. How am I gonna network?
Brandon: Bring Jackson to help. Jen brings him to certain events sometimes.
Monica: Really? She's brought him to events sometimes. He's probably, like, the most popular kid there.
Brandon: He's the only kid there. Well, he's probably the only kid there, but everybody's got kids. Everybody's got a family, and everybody's got other obligations. And that's another really cool thing — when you start to meet and interact with other professionals on a human level, and you can talk about that stuff. You talk about family life, talk about raising kids, talk about chasing after —
Monica: It makes you more relatable too.
Brandon: It does. When you're at an event, and you're talking to judges, and you're commiserating over the things that your toddler did, it changes the dynamic of the relationship. And then the next time you're in court and you see that person, it's like, oh, you're a friendly face. Like, you know — we've talked about stuff.
Monica: You've shown me pics of your kids.
Brandon: Yeah. Like, you know about my kid, I know about your kids. It's a good feeling to have, especially when you're dealing with certain judges that you know they're gonna be tough, and you know them on a personal level, and you're just like, shit, I wish I knew you a little bit better if you're gonna be so fucking tough on me.
Monica: Yeah. No, it's true. But that's part of the thing — getting to know people. It does help. It does help asking like, how's your dog doing, Judge? How's your, you know, whatever. Like, just following up like that also helps you cultivate the relationship.
Brandon: Of course.
Monica: Even though you're not really talking about anything significant, you know?
Brandon: Yeah. There are definitely certain judges that, in court, it'll come up. Like, personal things will come up in court. I have judges that'll ask me about my wife or my son in court. That happens from time to time. But usually not when I'm handling anything very serious.
Monica: Yeah.
Brandon: It's usually, like, a continuance.
Monica: Yeah.
Brandon: And they'll be like, oh, how's the family?
Monica: Yeah.
Brandon: And it's like, we're good.
Monica: It's never anything — it's never like I'm in the middle of, like, something really crazy or I'm contested, and I'm getting heated with something. And then the judge is like, and by the way, how's your family?
Brandon: Fuck your client, but how's your family doing? Imagine. I'd be like —
Monica: You're like, yeah, that doesn't happen. Don't worry about it, Judge. You know what? My family's fine, Judge. Okay? It'd be a lot better if you granted that motion.
Brandon: Yeah.
Monica: Literally. So I always — listen, maybe 2026 will bring me more — on the eve of 2026 pretty much. When this comes out —
Brandon: Yeah, it will be — we're gonna be in the heart of 2026.
Monica: Yeah. Hopefully I'll be doing some lunches to cultivate my relationships. 'Cause I think that it was a really great thing that he does. And it's obviously with other attorneys or other professionals that he's connected to, and I think that's a really great thing. 'Cause it's a mutual relationship. It's not one-sided. It's not call me when you only hear from a criminal case. Like, it's, how can I support you? How can you support me? Or if you've been in a position of doing something that someone else hasn't done before, they can reach out to you as somebody who is a mentor, who knows information about this position, or knows information about whatever it is.
Monica: And being able to just be of service to people, I have found has been also another really great way to just get exposure. It's not really networking, but it's just serving people. I'm helping with — I'm not on the board of certain organizations, but certain organizations have needed help getting certain things done with their annual signature event, and I've been able to help them out, and I'm not on the board. Things like that — honestly, even though it hasn't really come back in a way to me where I've been able to get a case from that, I feel good being able to give back to my community in some way, give back to my friends or colleagues in a way that maybe I can't really support you in the way that you thought I could, or maybe an opportunity hasn't come up where I can send you a case. But I can actually show up for you in this way. And I think that shows a lot about who you are. If you're willing to serve people — and that's how you kinda gather information, too, if this person's actually going to be good to your client, if you wanna refer them a case. So aside from being on the board, being involved, being of true service and being able to help people, I think is a really big way to get exposure too.
Brandon: I agree with that.
Wrap-Up
Monica: All that to say, y'all should attend. We are having networking events. I don't know. Should I plug that?
Brandon: Well, we are having networking events. By the time this comes out, we probably will have had our first networking event already.
Monica: Yeah.
Brandon: Because we're gonna be having it in February of 2026, but we are going to be hosting regular networking events.
Monica: Yes. And we are very excited for that.
Brandon: Yeah, we are really excited about that.
Monica: So we will be connecting with all of you, hopefully in person. And if you liked listening, make sure you like, comment and subscribe. We are on all social media platforms. Comebackwithawarrant.pod. Leave us a 5-star review. And also don't forget to subscribe to our weekly newsletter. And if you didn't like listening to us —
Brandon: Come back with a warrant.